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Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2021
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(20 Apr 2021)

John McGuinness: Yes. What is the question?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2021
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(20 Apr 2021)

John McGuinness: We have to move on.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2021
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(20 Apr 2021)

John McGuinness: Perhaps the Minister can respond to the committee.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2021
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(20 Apr 2021)

John McGuinness: I call Deputy Richmond.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2021
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(20 Apr 2021)

John McGuinness: At a previous meeting, when we were dealing with matters in private session, the committee noted the Taoiseach and Tánaiste had not responded to a request from this committee to make a written submission on the process that was engaged in regarding the Secretary General of the Department of Health, how it started and so on. The Minister might say he stands over the process of selection...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2021
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(20 Apr 2021)

John McGuinness: In my remarks, I acknowledged that the €12 billion was there. I am pointing out the shortfall for retailers who cannot carry the cost of having purchased stock and then having to warehouse that stock, and of having to deal with the banks, which are relentless and unaccommodating in their pursuit of retailers. That is the point I am making. I acknowledge what has been done but I am...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2021
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(20 Apr 2021)

John McGuinness: I have two further questions but Deputy Tóibín wants to come in.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2021
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(20 Apr 2021)

John McGuinness: As regards the Central Bank and the legislation that governs its activities, is it time to review that legislation and to ensure that in some way it can play a part in attracting another bank? For example, Spanish banks were interested in coming in as the majority shareholders in two banks. Rather than allowing them to buy the books of KBC or Ulster Bank, we could have insisted that those...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2021
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(20 Apr 2021)

John McGuinness: I would make two comments on that. Ulster Bank had staff and a network. KBC Bank had staff and a network. If that was put on the international markets, and I am not suggesting that the Minister would go seeking one, but a bank would be interested because it is not starting from scratch. I know banks are exiting the country but why should we allow the duopoly to take up the slack of Ulster...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2021
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(20 Apr 2021)

John McGuinness: I will share it with the Minister in the committee. That is a glib answer. I am suggesting that rather than let an opportunity slip we would have done more to market the banks or insist that the banks would market themselves abroad. It is as simple as that. Rather than talk down our market, and I am not suggesting the Minister is doing that, we should talk it up and see if there is an...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2021
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(20 Apr 2021)

John McGuinness: Deputy Durkan wants to come in but I have to answer. I am impressed by the numbers of people employed by the bank. They are making an investment in the country for themselves. They come first. What would I say to all the banks that came before us that literally robbed their customers in the course of the tracker mortgage issue? What would I say to the banks that came before us and which...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2021
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(20 Apr 2021)

John McGuinness: The Minister----

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2021
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(20 Apr 2021)

John McGuinness: Go ahead.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2021
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(20 Apr 2021)

John McGuinness: I have an interest in attempting to attract another player into the market. It is in the interest of the country. I am sure that if KBC or Ulster Bank were to be packaged and put out there, we would then see whether there is any interest in picking up an existing bank and its staff and network. I am simply saying we never asked. The two banks never asked. They were prepared to do a deal...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2021
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(20 Apr 2021)

John McGuinness: That is fine.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2021
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(20 Apr 2021)

John McGuinness: From listening to me, the Minister knows well that was not what I was doing. He is a shareholder in the two banks. They could have been asked to stand back while the other two banks, KBC and Ulster Bank, were encouraged to see if anyone was interested. Are we that bad here that no one is interested in it? That is all that I am saying.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2021
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(20 Apr 2021)

John McGuinness: We are just out of time.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2021
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(20 Apr 2021)

John McGuinness: No, we need to conclude at 5.30 p.m.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2021
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(20 Apr 2021)

John McGuinness: The clock is ticking.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2021
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(20 Apr 2021)

John McGuinness: I want to allow the Minister time to answer.

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