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Public Accounts Committee: An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2021 (27 Apr 2023)

Verona Murphy: It was. At the same time, that was Mr. Justice Holland in that case. However, if it was the case that developers were applying while knowing that they could run out of time, they could flush their money down the toilet because it would have the same impact. Given there were tripartite meetings, for sure they could be seen as having a legitimate expectation that the decision would be made...

Public Accounts Committee: An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2021 (27 Apr 2023)

Verona Murphy: I am sorry. We are confusing this. Ms Buckley is telling me what Mr. Justice Holland said about which plan applies at the time the decision is made. We know which plan applies. We have known for years because it is intimated in several judgments, not just Mr. Justice Holland's. To be clear, Mr. Justice Holland said that the county development plan in being is the only county development...

Public Accounts Committee: An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2021 (27 Apr 2023)

Verona Murphy: To be clear, the fine is not to absolve the board of responsibility or further litigation. It is to penalise the board and to try to incentivise the board to make decisions in a timely fashion because that 16 weeks applies whether it is year one of a county development plan or year four. Do not try to muddy the waters. We are going really well here. The question is simply this. We are...

Public Accounts Committee: An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2021 (27 Apr 2023)

Verona Murphy: Within the lifetime of the development plan.

Public Accounts Committee: An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2021 (27 Apr 2023)

Verona Murphy: No, do not muddy-----

Public Accounts Committee: An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2021 (27 Apr 2023)

Verona Murphy: The thing about it is that no matter what we say about Mr. Justice Holland's decision, he only makes one point, which is that the relevant county development plan, of which there is only one, is the one when the decision is made. Clearly, that is the one in being, so there is only ever one. It is a different premise. The point I am making is that, whether Ms Buckley or anybody here likes...

Public Accounts Committee: An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2021 (27 Apr 2023)

Verona Murphy: The question is that the jeopardy arises.

Public Accounts Committee: An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2021 (27 Apr 2023)

Verona Murphy: That does not mean that they will not. It means that we are on the hook for expenses. I am not finished as I have a few seconds left.

Public Accounts Committee: An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2021 (27 Apr 2023)

Verona Murphy: I heard Ms Buckley say this morning that the board is going to expand the legal credentials within An Bord Pleanála. I would be seriously concerned about the cost of that, given that the companies which specialise in planning are very specialised and earn a huge amount of money. Where are we going to see value for money in employing them? How many legal eagles does Ms Buckley...

Public Accounts Committee: An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2021 (27 Apr 2023)

Verona Murphy: I am aware of that. I know that and I do not blame An Bord Pleanála for that. However, what I am looking at is the level of funding that goes into training the staff who are making the decisions that are being judicially reviewed. How much was spent on that?

Public Accounts Committee: An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2021 (27 Apr 2023)

Verona Murphy: I would be fairly confident it was nowhere near the €5 million mark.

Public Accounts Committee: An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2021 (27 Apr 2023)

Verona Murphy: That is the concern. We need to not concentrate on litigation; we need to try to avoid it.

Public Accounts Committee: An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2021 (27 Apr 2023)

Verona Murphy: I only spoke to apologise for the comments on the basis that An Bord Pleanála became the story. I endorse the interim chairperson's comments because she is absolutely right. Mr. Hogan here, who does not agree, is part of the problem. If our planning policy does not change-----

Public Accounts Committee: An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2021 (27 Apr 2023)

Verona Murphy: If our planning policy does not change - the Chair just put it to the interim chairperson - An Bord Pleanála's legal bills will not be reduced and it will not be able recruit enough legal people to deal with the issues. It is our planning policy that is stalling the delivery of houses. Regardless of the process that we engage with An Bord Pleanála, etc., An Bord Pleanála is...

Public Accounts Committee: An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2021 (27 Apr 2023)

Verona Murphy: I doubt he will respond.

Public Accounts Committee: An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2021 (27 Apr 2023)

Verona Murphy: It will also mean increased densities and compact development, which are the source of many of our judicial reviews. The matter is out for public consultation. Regardless of the feedback, if we want to do something in the short term, the new planning and development Bill is over 700 pages long and will not be introduced any time soon. According to much of the engagement I have seen at...

Public Accounts Committee: An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2021 (27 Apr 2023)

Verona Murphy: It is important that Mr. Hogan hear this because the public need to know where the issue is arising.

Public Accounts Committee: An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2021 (27 Apr 2023)

Verona Murphy: In Dublin only.

Public Accounts Committee: An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2021 (27 Apr 2023)

Verona Murphy: Not to interrupt the Chair, but just to set it-----

Public Accounts Committee: An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2021 (27 Apr 2023)

Verona Murphy: But it is important.

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