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Public Accounts Committee: An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2021 (27 Apr 2023)

Verona Murphy: I thank Mr. Hogan. I have heard all that before. In what has just been read out by Mr. Hogan, there is no mention of minimum density. I ask Ms Buckley to submit to the committee something on that. It is a particular issue that we now see is contentious around the whole country with the development of county development plans. Not only that, it is the subject of many of our judicial...

Public Accounts Committee: An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2021 (27 Apr 2023)

Verona Murphy: Would Ms Buckley agree that planning policy is the reason we have such poor delivery of housing?

Public Accounts Committee: An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2021 (27 Apr 2023)

Verona Murphy: Ms Buckley can agree, because the evidence is there, that many of the reviews that were traditionally successful were successful because of the densities being applied. Is that not correct?

Public Accounts Committee: An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2021 (27 Apr 2023)

Verona Murphy: I was hoping we were not going to get to that.

Public Accounts Committee: An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2021 (27 Apr 2023)

Verona Murphy: I will put it this way: I will expect a different answer this time next year.

Public Accounts Committee: An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2021 (27 Apr 2023)

Verona Murphy: I am very concerned about the 27,000 housing units. Ms Buckley said An Bord Pleanála had decided 6,000 in recent weeks. What is very concerning about that is that these were SHDs, is that not so? Clearly, we know that the new county development plans are in train. Many people involved in the sector know that. Developers were advised by members of An Bord Pleanála how they...

Public Accounts Committee: An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2021 (27 Apr 2023)

Verona Murphy: As well as maybe some representative from the council.

Public Accounts Committee: An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2021 (27 Apr 2023)

Verona Murphy: Realistically, everything that was applied for was the information they were given. Everybody knows when the changeover from one county development plan to the new county development plan happens. Why were the decisions that we now find falling between two stools not prioritised in the middle of the housing crisis? By no means is it Ms Buckley's fault. When was it known? Is she worried...

Public Accounts Committee: An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2021 (27 Apr 2023)

Verona Murphy: Is Ms Buckley concerned that because of those engagements, such as what I term tripartite meetings, with all of those concerned, there would have been a legitimate expectation of a grant of planning permission? The jeopardy here strictly is caused by delays and problems of the board. Paying the fine is one thing; it does not in any way absolve An Bord Pleanála of being wrong. Is Ms...

Public Accounts Committee: An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2021 (27 Apr 2023)

Verona Murphy: Ultimately, of the 6,000 dealt with, have they all been refused?

Public Accounts Committee: An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2021 (27 Apr 2023)

Verona Murphy: This is my last question, Chair. I will come back in.

Public Accounts Committee: An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2021 (27 Apr 2023)

Verona Murphy: What does Ms Buckley expect from the remaining 21,000?

Public Accounts Committee: An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2021 (27 Apr 2023)

Verona Murphy: I thank Ms Buckley for that. I want to clarify the point I was making earlier because I ran out of time. When I spoke about a legitimate expectation, I meant a legitimate expectation that they would have a decision granted within the life of the county development plan that was in being at the time of application. That is where I believe there is going to be a jeopardy arising. Would Ms...

Public Accounts Committee: An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2021 (27 Apr 2023)

Verona Murphy: It was. At the same time, that was Mr. Justice Holland in that case. However, if it was the case that developers were applying while knowing that they could run out of time, they could flush their money down the toilet because it would have the same impact. Given there were tripartite meetings, for sure they could be seen as having a legitimate expectation that the decision would be made...

Public Accounts Committee: An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2021 (27 Apr 2023)

Verona Murphy: I am sorry. We are confusing this. Ms Buckley is telling me what Mr. Justice Holland said about which plan applies at the time the decision is made. We know which plan applies. We have known for years because it is intimated in several judgments, not just Mr. Justice Holland's. To be clear, Mr. Justice Holland said that the county development plan in being is the only county development...

Public Accounts Committee: An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2021 (27 Apr 2023)

Verona Murphy: To be clear, the fine is not to absolve the board of responsibility or further litigation. It is to penalise the board and to try to incentivise the board to make decisions in a timely fashion because that 16 weeks applies whether it is year one of a county development plan or year four. Do not try to muddy the waters. We are going really well here. The question is simply this. We are...

Public Accounts Committee: An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2021 (27 Apr 2023)

Verona Murphy: Within the lifetime of the development plan.

Public Accounts Committee: An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2021 (27 Apr 2023)

Verona Murphy: No, do not muddy-----

Public Accounts Committee: An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2021 (27 Apr 2023)

Verona Murphy: The thing about it is that no matter what we say about Mr. Justice Holland's decision, he only makes one point, which is that the relevant county development plan, of which there is only one, is the one when the decision is made. Clearly, that is the one in being, so there is only ever one. It is a different premise. The point I am making is that, whether Ms Buckley or anybody here likes...

Public Accounts Committee: An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2021 (27 Apr 2023)

Verona Murphy: The question is that the jeopardy arises.

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