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Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (7 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: As I have often stated, I do not accept the amendment being proposed by the Rural Independent Group or when it was proposed by the Fine Gael Party. Amendment No. 2 calls on the Minister, as we have to do to allow these amendments to be in order, to prepare and lay before the Dáil a report on increasing the exemption limit for the USC from €13,000 to €30,000 and the...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (7 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: I move amendment No. 2: In page 8, between lines 5 and 6, to insert the following: "Report on universal social charge 3.The Minister shall, within six months of the passing of this Act, prepare and lay before Dáil Éireann a report on increasing the exemption limit with respect to the universal social charge from €13,000 to €30,000, and the distributional impact of...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (7 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: I understand the Minister's points about the simplicity of the scheme at the minute, bikes being stolen, Garda reports and so on. I do not want to focus on that point; I want to focus on the second amendment from Deputy Nash in respect of school and college, particularly the latter part. The school part would be challenging because every child could avail of it in that case and it would be...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (7 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: This section clarifies that there is no four-year rule in relation to Revenue being able to look back, which has always been the case or always was our understanding of the law as it applied to Revenue. Therefore, I have no issue with this clarification going into the finance Act. I ask the Minister to outline why this has now been introduced as a legislative change given that we expect...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (7 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: Obviously, this is the Minister's first time taking the Finance Bill in his capacity as Minister. I would like to ask when he saw the light with regard to this proposal, because these are his comments when he was in opposition: The question is whether the Government has got it right in the intervention it is making by way of the first-time buyer's tax rebate. We do not believe it has got...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (7 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: Does the Minister know how much average house prices have increased since he took office just over three years ago? Does he know what that figure is?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (7 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: It is €60,000. That is how much average house prices have increased. The comments the Minister made in opposition to it during the budget statements are actually accurate because it is about the issue of supply. Forget about his comments, however. His Department commissioned an independent study in regard to this. The position is clear. The study indicates that the scheme...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (7 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: I wish to go back in this discussion because the Minister did not answer any of the questions I had in this regard, perhaps understandably because the independent evidence, including reservations from the Minister's own Department, is stark. It does not matter how many times people say that the scheme works perfectly and that we should not interfere with the market - the fact is that we...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (7 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: Seriously, what the Minister is saying just does not make any sense. First of all, this has been going on, as Deputy Nash said, for nearly a decade. A decade ago interest rates were zero at ECB level and many customers were on tracker or fixed rates. Let us therefore be clear about this and have a proper discussion with regard to the facts. Mazars was very clear. The intention of this...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (7 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: The proposal is to continue to extend this every single year, despite all the evidence that it is pushing up house prices. This tax credit has cost us €909 million, and independent reports tell us that 53% of it was not needed. That takes the biscuit. I do not know of another tax measure that has so much deadweight in it and in respect of which the Minister for Finance comes in and...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (7 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: -----the independently commissioned report.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (7 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: How does-----

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (7 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: With respect, there is no time limit on Committee Stage.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (7 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: I know, and it is an important one because it relates to a measure that has cost nearly €1 billion since it was introduced. I would still like the Minister to answer the question about the deadweight. Some 53% of people availing of this scheme do not need it for a deposit. Does that concern him at all? He is extending a scheme that has that metric in it, and that metric has just...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (7 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: Is the Minister disputing the Mazars report? It states that 53.3% is the deadweight. I can read it for the Minister. That number has increased. I am just challenging this, if the Minister wants to address the point. The deadweight is 53.3%.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (7 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: I welcome the changes being made to benefit-in-kind for electric vehicles. This will have a big impact on some companies and individuals. Is there an upper limit to avail of this benefit-in-kind exemption and the €45,000? Is there an upper limit on the purchase price of the vehicle, which would be the open market value of the vehicle? Is it €50,000? Is this still there?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (7 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: My question to the Minister is whether there is an upper limit on the value of the car. A high-end car costs a lot of money. Is there an upper limit? Is there a €50,000 value? Is this available for high-end cars that have low emissions?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (7 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: There are electric vehicles in the market for €140,000. If a company provides an executive with one of these Mercedes that costs €180,000 or €140,000 will the individual be able to reduce their benefit-in-kind by €45,000 using this measurement?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (7 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: That is fine. There is no cap on the value of the car. I wonder why the Minister would not consider having a cap. There are electric vehicles that can cost a lot of money. Companies are providing their workers with electric vehicles in the range of €30,000 to €50,000. This is what is happening everywhere. I would not be surprised if funds here have executives driving...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (7 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: Yes.

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