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Joint Oireachtas Committee on the Eighth Amendment of the Constitution: International Developments in the Provision of Health Care Services in the Area of Termination of Pregnancies: Lyndon B. Johnson School of Public Affairs and World Health Organization (11 Oct 2017)

Rónán Mullen: On a point of order, I showed no discourtesy to anybody. I asked questions forensically and sought the right to persist in asking a number of questions. I object to fellow members of the committee seeking to up the ante in this way in dealing with what is a very sensitive issue of human rights and human dignity. I will make contact with the Chairman to put these objections more clearly...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on the Eighth Amendment of the Constitution: Health Care Issues Arising from the Citizens' Assembly Recommendations: Masters of the National Maternity Hospital, Holles Street and the Rotunda Hospital (11 Oct 2017)

Rónán Mullen: I thank the witnesses for coming in to share their knowledge with us. Dr. Mahony spoke a lot about the criminal law but I think she would accept that even in Britain there is a criminal law restricting abortion, that doctors are subject to the criminal law in Britain and that, in general terms, the criminal law is part of helping society distinguish between rogue and good doctors. Would she...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on the Eighth Amendment of the Constitution: Health Care Issues Arising from the Citizens' Assembly Recommendations: Masters of the National Maternity Hospital, Holles Street and the Rotunda Hospital (11 Oct 2017)

Rónán Mullen: What have they been prosecuted for in Northern Ireland?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on the Eighth Amendment of the Constitution: Health Care Issues Arising from the Citizens' Assembly Recommendations: Masters of the National Maternity Hospital, Holles Street and the Rotunda Hospital (11 Oct 2017)

Rónán Mullen: On their assessment of the risk or on a completely different ground?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on the Eighth Amendment of the Constitution: Health Care Issues Arising from the Citizens' Assembly Recommendations: Masters of the National Maternity Hospital, Holles Street and the Rotunda Hospital (11 Oct 2017)

Rónán Mullen: That is different from assessment of risk.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on the Eighth Amendment of the Constitution: Health Care Issues Arising from the Citizens' Assembly Recommendations: Masters of the National Maternity Hospital, Holles Street and the Rotunda Hospital (11 Oct 2017)

Rónán Mullen: Prosecuted.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on the Eighth Amendment of the Constitution: Health Care Issues Arising from the Citizens' Assembly Recommendations: Masters of the National Maternity Hospital, Holles Street and the Rotunda Hospital (11 Oct 2017)

Rónán Mullen: The HSE guidelines, therefore, are not enough. Is that what Dr. Mahony is saying? They do not protect the doctor.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on the Eighth Amendment of the Constitution: Health Care Issues Arising from the Citizens' Assembly Recommendations: Masters of the National Maternity Hospital, Holles Street and the Rotunda Hospital (11 Oct 2017)

Rónán Mullen: Is that Professor Malone's view also?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on the Eighth Amendment of the Constitution: Health Care Issues Arising from the Citizens' Assembly Recommendations: Masters of the National Maternity Hospital, Holles Street and the Rotunda Hospital (11 Oct 2017)

Rónán Mullen: The doctor is not permitted to intervene at that point. Is that what Professor Malone is saying?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on the Eighth Amendment of the Constitution: Health Care Issues Arising from the Citizens' Assembly Recommendations: Masters of the National Maternity Hospital, Holles Street and the Rotunda Hospital (11 Oct 2017)

Rónán Mullen: On an important point of order, a reference was made to a third party, Ms Cora Sherlock of the pro-life campaign, who I happen to know. I would be fairly sure that she was referring to 90% as the figure for Britain, which makes its own point about what happens once this is legalised. Whether I am correct in that, it is utterly unfair that it would be alleged that a third party got her facts...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on the Eighth Amendment of the Constitution: Health Care Issues Arising from the Citizens' Assembly Recommendations: Masters of the National Maternity Hospital, Holles Street and the Rotunda Hospital (11 Oct 2017)

Rónán Mullen: I thank the Chairman.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on the Eighth Amendment of the Constitution: Health Care Issues Arising from the Citizens' Assembly Recommendations: Masters of the National Maternity Hospital, Holles Street and the Rotunda Hospital (11 Oct 2017)

Rónán Mullen: She does not need to, in fact.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on the Eighth Amendment of the Constitution: Health Care Issues Arising from the Citizens' Assembly Recommendations: Masters of the National Maternity Hospital, Holles Street and the Rotunda Hospital (11 Oct 2017)

Rónán Mullen: Okay. I appreciate the Chairman giving me the opportunity to make that a point of order.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on the Eighth Amendment of the Constitution: Health Care Issues Arising from the Citizens' Assembly Recommendations: Masters of the National Maternity Hospital, Holles Street and the Rotunda Hospital (11 Oct 2017)

Rónán Mullen: I will just say a few words seeing as I have been drawn into this. I have no problem with an analysis of the quality of evidence being produced by Deputy McGrath but I object to the motivations of any member-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on the Eighth Amendment of the Constitution: Health Care Issues Arising from the Citizens' Assembly Recommendations: Masters of the National Maternity Hospital, Holles Street and the Rotunda Hospital (11 Oct 2017)

Rónán Mullen: Words such as glib are unhelpful. Senator Buttimer has a point but is being unfair-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on the Eighth Amendment of the Constitution: Eighth Amendment of the Constitution: Constitutional Issues Arising from the Citizens Assembly Recommendations (4 Oct 2017)

Rónán Mullen: I repeat my apologies. As a result of a family bereavement, I was unable to be here earlier. Professor Binchy is very welcome. I congratulate him on being a voice of sanity and compassion over the years in an increasingly uncaring world. His activity on behalf of people with disabilities, his great work promoting the rule of law and helping the rule of law in Africa stands in perfect...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on the Eighth Amendment of the Constitution: Eighth Amendment of the Constitution: Constitutional Issues Arising from the Citizens Assembly Recommendations (4 Oct 2017)

Rónán Mullen: Second, in terms of figures, there appears to have been an attempt to put in issue the idea that Ireland's abortion rates are lower than those in other countries. Let us take Deputy Coppinger's figures in terms of the proportion of drug-induced abortions, and there was reference to at least three others – compared with ten women travelling. That is a tragic situation. Everybody...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on the Eighth Amendment of the Constitution: Eighth Amendment of the Constitution: Constitutional Issues Arising from the Citizens Assembly Recommendations (4 Oct 2017)

Rónán Mullen: That is as I understood it to be. Those issues are important because rather than being so fast and loose about facts in respect of an issue that is life-and-death in nature, it is really important that we strive for clarity. That means telling the full story. Going back to the question of abortions having been prevented, it is the case is it not that in Northern Ireland it was claimed that...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on the Eighth Amendment of the Constitution: Eighth Amendment of the Constitution: Constitutional Issues Arising from the Citizens Assembly Recommendations (4 Oct 2017)

Rónán Mullen: On the question of human rights, I have heard the Commissioner for Human Rights of the Council of Europe say human rights do not apply before birth. Professor Binchy was a member of the Irish Human Rights Commission at one point. I note with concern that the Convention on the Rights of the Child refers, in its preamble, to the right of the child before as well as after birth but this...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on the Eighth Amendment of the Constitution: Eighth Amendment of the Constitution: Constitutional Issues Arising from the Citizens Assembly Recommendations (4 Oct 2017)

Rónán Mullen: I apologise for using the term "not give a damn". That phrase does not normally attract censure in these Houses but I accept Professor Binchy's correction.

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