Results 3,681-3,700 of 10,790 for speaker:Matt Carthy

Seanad: Address by H.E. Roberta Metsola, President of the European Parliament (2 Feb 2023)

Matt Carthy: Hear, hear.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Health Service Executive - Financial Statements 2021 (Resumed) (2 Feb 2023)

Matt Carthy: I thank our guests for being here. We have been discussing the long-stay repayment scheme in the context of two distinct groups, if I am correct in respect of what is being said by Mr. Mulvany. We have the medical card holders in public nursing homes who, largely, were all eligible under the scheme and medical card holders in private nursing homes, which the HSE and the Department have...

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Health Service Executive - Financial Statements 2021 (Resumed) (2 Feb 2023)

Matt Carthy: Mr. Mulvany’s point is made. Is it not correct to say that there is a third group, because there were also medical card holders in what are known as section 38 and 39 disability services homes, in community hospitals, essentially? Is that not correct? I refer Mr. Mulvany to the financial statements of the HSE from quite a number of years ago, for 2009, 2010 and 2011, which I will...

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Health Service Executive - Financial Statements 2021 (Resumed) (2 Feb 2023)

Matt Carthy: I have read the 2011 accounts. That was the case in 2009 and 2010, and in 2011 the HSE lodged an appeal to the High Court. By 2012, note 31 in the HSE’s financial accounts stated: Following discontinuation of appeals to the High Court brought by the HSE and the Department of Health in respect of determinations by the Appeals Officer granting eligibility to clients of certain...

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Health Service Executive - Financial Statements 2021 (Resumed) (2 Feb 2023)

Matt Carthy: I am surprised Mr. Mulvany does not know this because this is even included in the Comptroller and Auditor General’s report of September 2011, which noted that a hearing in this area was awaited. As I mentioned, the 2012 financial statements provided for €8 million in the 2013 HSE budget to refund repayments to these outstanding claims. A total of €8 million was...

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Health Service Executive - Financial Statements 2021 (Resumed) (2 Feb 2023)

Matt Carthy: Is Mr. Mulvany aware of the reason the appeal was dropped? The State was going to appeal its own appeals officer in respect of these particular cases. As I understand it, there were potentially up to 10,000 people across all homes, but more than 300 had lodged appeals. These were going to be deemed eligible as a result of the appeals officer’s decision. The HSE and the Department...

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Health Service Executive - Financial Statements 2021 (Resumed) (2 Feb 2023)

Matt Carthy: Let me help Mr. Mulvany for a minute------

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Health Service Executive - Financial Statements 2021 (Resumed) (2 Feb 2023)

Matt Carthy: Let me just clarify. There were 515 similar appeals to the three tests the appeals officer initiated at St. Michael’s House, Cheeverstown House and the Daughters of Charity. These were residents within those institutions for whom appeals had been made on their behalf. An appeals officer had determined they were eligible. A decision was made to appeal that. That appeal was...

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Health Service Executive - Financial Statements 2021 (Resumed) (2 Feb 2023)

Matt Carthy: The memo I refer to which lays out the legal rationale states: The particular difficulty with challenging such a finding by the appeals office is that it raises a wider issue, that the legal basis under which payments were collected from residents and community homes, if it were found by the High Court that they were not recoverable health charges, there appears to be no other legal basis...

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Health Service Executive - Financial Statements 2021 (Resumed) (2 Feb 2023)

Matt Carthy: These people are eligible for the scheme. That has been determined by the HSE's appeals officer, a decision it did not appeal, on the basis of legal advice indicating it did not stand a chance in hell. There are, potentially, 10,000 people additional to the people we have been talking about all week, and these are people who are in disability services in section 38 and section 39...

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Health Service Executive - Financial Statements 2021 (Resumed) (2 Feb 2023)

Matt Carthy: For clarity, the documentation I have in front of me is the HSE's own financial statements on an annual basis and its notes relating to 2011, 2012 and so on.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Health Service Executive - Financial Statements 2021 (Resumed) (2 Feb 2023)

Matt Carthy: May I finish with one further point?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Health Service Executive - Financial Statements 2021 (Resumed) (2 Feb 2023)

Matt Carthy: Here is the situation as we know it. Up to 10,000 people in those homes were eligible, a number of them appealed and the appeal was upheld but, because of delays as a result of a court challenge that did not materialise, it was a number of years before those who had appealed were paid. A number of people who had applied in the first instance did not appeal based on the advice of the HSE...

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Health Service Executive - Financial Statements 2021 (Resumed) (2 Feb 2023)

Matt Carthy: In respect of where my figure of 10,000 has come from, according to this memorandum we have received, €20 million would be required to satisfy the appeals of the 512 who had made appeals. That was subsequently included in the HSE's financial statements. The memorandum also stated, however, that in the worst-case scenario, the HSE estimated a potential liability of some €360...

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Health Service Executive - Financial Statements 2021 (Resumed) (2 Feb 2023)

Matt Carthy: Why would Mr. Mulvany not be able to get further information today?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Health Service Executive - Financial Statements 2021 (Resumed) (2 Feb 2023)

Matt Carthy: I want to go back to the issue I raised earlier. I will be clear in terms of the questions I am seeking to have answered. Section 38 and 39 residential homes are voluntary community disability services. In many cases, we are talking about some of the most vulnerable people in our society in the context of those homes. The HSE advised patients in those settings that they would not be...

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Health Service Executive - Financial Statements 2021 (Resumed) (2 Feb 2023)

Matt Carthy: Go on then.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Health Service Executive - Financial Statements 2021 (Resumed) (2 Feb 2023)

Matt Carthy: Which one would Mr. Mulvany not accept?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Health Service Executive - Financial Statements 2021 (Resumed) (2 Feb 2023)

Matt Carthy: I literally only just said it approximately a minute and a half ago. What did I say that Mr. Mulvany disputes?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Health Service Executive - Financial Statements 2021 (Resumed) (2 Feb 2023)

Matt Carthy: Mr. Mulvany made the point that he is disputing some of what I said. I am asking him what he disputes. Does he dispute the use of the word "bizarre"?