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Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary)
(30 Nov 2022)

David Cullinane: Here is what I see. I see the €1.39 billion figure, I see the Minister say 85% of that is for Covid-19 expenditure and €190 million is from a contingency fund. Then there is a separate discussion about €600 million of additional spend for unforeseen events and I know what it is, it is pensions and all of those demands and so on. Then we talking about cash reserves and...

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary)
(30 Nov 2022)

David Cullinane: I want to take the Minister back to the Supplementary Estimates and to the total figure of €1.39 billion. Our job today is to ensure there is, at the very least, a basic and elementary level of scrutiny, oversight and accountability. For that to happen, we have to be satisfied as to the figures in two respects: what was originally allocated versus what will be allocated now and the...

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary)
(30 Nov 2022)

David Cullinane: Yes, that is €697 million. The difference between €697 million and €1.878 billion is €1.18 billion, which is €968 million new Covid-19 measures, funded programmes, and then the €213 million which is made up of the Covid-19 recognition payments and the therapeutics. That is basically it, is it not?

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary)
(30 Nov 2022)

David Cullinane: Yes. The question then is, of that €697 million which was originally allocated, what was it allocated for? I went back over the Estimates and €200 million of that was allocated for the access to care fund and €497 million for Covid-19 programmes. We then need to work through now all of the different Covid-19 programmes and compare and contrast what was originally...

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary)
(30 Nov 2022)

David Cullinane: I was and I heard-----

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary)
(30 Nov 2022)

David Cullinane: Some €697 million was budgeted for.

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary)
(30 Nov 2022)

David Cullinane: Why?

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary)
(30 Nov 2022)

David Cullinane: Hang on a second. How can we sign off on this? What the Minister said to Deputy Shortall earlier was that the total allocation for PPE is €118 million. That is part of that additional spend. The Minister said it in his opening statement. I have a very loose breakdown of that €697 million. A total of €200 million is for the access to care fund and €497 million...

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary)
(30 Nov 2022)

David Cullinane: Surely there would have been some breakdown. It is not possible for me to envisage we would provide €497 million - quite a precise figure rather than a rounded figure like €500 million - on the basis it came from somewhere but yet we cannot have the breakdown. Maybe I will move on to the access to care fund-----

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary)
(30 Nov 2022)

David Cullinane: I get there needs to be agility and flexibility, but we are being asked to sign off on additional spend. We should have had the €697 million figure and been told what was originally allocated and what it was intended the money would be spent on and then told what the new revised allocation of €1.878 billion would be spent on. How much of the €1.878 billion will be...

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary)
(30 Nov 2022)

David Cullinane: Look at page 19 of the document.

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary)
(30 Nov 2022)

David Cullinane: What is that for?

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary)
(30 Nov 2022)

David Cullinane: Hang on a second. Some €200 million is allocated. Is that not right?

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary)
(30 Nov 2022)

David Cullinane: The €1.878 billion is made up of all of those components, including the access to care fund. This is what the Department envisages will be spent across all of these programmes, unless we are saying we will spend more again. What the Department provided to us today is €6.9 million for an access to care fund, where in the budget, there was a provision of €200 million. Is...

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary)
(30 Nov 2022)

David Cullinane: How can it be higher? The final revised allocation in front of me is €1.878 billion. It is made up of all of these components, part of which is the access to care fund of €6.9 million. If Mr. O'Grady is telling me the latter figure may be higher, the revised allocation will be higher than €1.878 billion. Where will that money come from?

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary)
(30 Nov 2022)

David Cullinane: That makes no sense in how the Department is presenting this today. The fact that I even have to do this frustrates me. The Department is presenting figures to us of €118 million for PPE, €402 million for testing and tracing, €465.8 million for vaccinations, €6.9 million for the access to care fund, €396 million for Covid acute hospital responses, and...

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary)
(30 Nov 2022)

David Cullinane: How can we only spend €130 million when it is €200 million and when we have a waiting list crisis, the Chair talking about the National Ambulance Service, we have people waiting far too long in hospitals, we have some patients waiting more than 24 hours, and we have all of the challenges and the pressures? The Minister announced, with great fanfare, €200 million of an...

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary)
(30 Nov 2022)

David Cullinane: Is that separate from the access to care fund?

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary)
(30 Nov 2022)

David Cullinane: What the Minister is telling me is the access to care fund was really a combination of funding that was already announced as part of the 10,000 staffing.

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary)
(30 Nov 2022)

David Cullinane: That is what the Minister just said.

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