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Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (14 Dec 2023)

Brian Stanley: I ask the Deputy to wait until I have gone through the formal procedure first and then we can discuss it. No. R2276 C is correspondence from RTÉ, forwarding correspondence from Ms Geraldine O’Leary, dated 11 December 2023. I propose that we note and publish this item. Is that agreed? Agreed. Deputy Murphy wants to come in.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (14 Dec 2023)

Brian Stanley: I know what the Deputy is saying. I have been reading it as well.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (14 Dec 2023)

Brian Stanley: Just to clarify, the Deputy is referring to the public document.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (14 Dec 2023)

Brian Stanley: We know from the various correspondence from RTÉ that that person acted as meeting secretary in that they took notes and recorded what happened at the meeting, which was subsequently put into an account and the public document we received. I think we all agree that reflected what was in the private notes.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (14 Dec 2023)

Brian Stanley: The question is valid. If they were not giving legal advice, why were they there?

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (14 Dec 2023)

Brian Stanley: It is one of the major questions around that whole event in RTÉ. What happened in respect of the legal department and its role? What advice was or was not given to the director general or what advice was not sought? In respect of the meeting, it is clear it was not advice. It is one of the issues we will need to address in our report and recommendations. Hopefully, we will do that...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (14 Dec 2023)

Brian Stanley: I think I said it here and some members would have said it way back. We said that this will be an account of what happened, what was discussed and what was agreed at the meeting. That is really what it is and it turned out to be that way as well. The public can make their own judgement on that. We will hopefully have the report in the first month we are back. We should be able to do it...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (14 Dec 2023)

Brian Stanley: And that we understand the process for deciding on these packages, how they are approved, who approves them and what information does or does not go to the board. All of this will be important.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (14 Dec 2023)

Brian Stanley: I accept that. The only thing we are aware of is that it most likely happened in phone calls between two people.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (14 Dec 2023)

Brian Stanley: We have that correspondence and I hope we will have the outcome of those two reports very soon in the new year. This concludes our consideration of correspondence and we move on to the work programme. Members have been circulated with the draft work programme and we had a fairly good discussion on it last week. On 18 January 2024, we will meet with the Department of Social Protection to...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (14 Dec 2023)

Brian Stanley: I think they are on the list.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (14 Dec 2023)

Brian Stanley: We will do this.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (14 Dec 2023)

Brian Stanley: We did not get an opportunity to discuss it at the meeting but I spoke to the officials at the lunch break about this. I spoke to Mr. Graham Doyle and some of the other officials about the ones that are unencumbered. What happens when they are out of the finance period? Do they have to take local authority tenants? What rent can they charge? Can they dispose of them? Who owns them?...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (14 Dec 2023)

Brian Stanley: We now have tenants in some of the homes that were built under the same schemes. They were housed in social housing. There is another way to commercialise them. A private company was brought in to manage them and now sets the rent. The people living in those homes have to apply to the local authority for housing. They must let on. The local authority must pretend they are on the housing...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (14 Dec 2023)

Brian Stanley: There has been a change in staff. Some people have moved on, moved upwards, or moved sideways. I want to acknowledge the work done by the staff as well, particularly during the period with RTÉ. Much of the public may have thought we were just dealing with RTÉ. Yet, each week, we were also dealing with other matters. There was a separate body before the committee every week. I...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (14 Dec 2023)

Brian Stanley: A lot of work was done late at night and on weekends-----

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (14 Dec 2023)

Brian Stanley: I think people might have a view that there is a lot of inertia in the Civil Service, but certainly the secretariat of this committee was very nimble on their feet, as have the staff in the Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General. Catherine Smyth has come in as the new liaison and I acknowledge her work. She has come in and taken up the position that was held by Shane O'Connor. I...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (14 Dec 2023)

Brian Stanley: I thank the Deputy. We can all agree with that.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (14 Dec 2023)

Brian Stanley: I remember one particular weekend there was a lot of back and forward. A huge amount of work was being done. I acknowledge that. I acknowledge the co-operation of the members of the committee as well. There were occasions during meetings where I had to make a call with the secretariat. In fairness, I try to reflect the views of the members as a committee and what they want. Yet,...

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