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Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (21 May 2015)

John Paul Phelan: You have already stated in your evidence that there were ... that the ELA facility was in place for the following day and that could have taken things to the weekend. That's the point I'm trying to make. You-----

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (21 May 2015)

John Paul Phelan: Okay. That's fine.

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (20 May 2015)

John Paul Phelan: Thank you Chairman. You caught me a bit by surprise there. I thought there was somebody before me. Can I ask actually at the start ... Mr. McDonnell ... I think you referenced shareholders in several of your answers and, indeed, in your opening comments. And you said that the responsibility of an auditor is primarily to the shareholders to ensure that the accounts of the company being...

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (20 May 2015)

John Paul Phelan: Is it your view or not that shareholders when they make investment decisions tend, or not, to study the audited accounts of the companies that they’re thinking of investing in? Or, do you think that audited accounts really should be part of the decision-making process of shareholders before they make an investment?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (20 May 2015)

John Paul Phelan: To touch on what my colleague Deputy O’Donnell was asking earlier, how do you reconcile the signing off of the 2007 accounts for Bank of Ireland in May 2008 with the fact that in January-February 2009, €3.5 billion worth of taxpayers’ money had to be invested into the bank to rescue it? How do you reconcile the fact that the audited accounts from PwC...

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (20 May 2015)

John Paul Phelan: Was ... sorry, five minutes? Yeah, sorry, I don't ... I can't ... Was a post-balance sheet review conducted just prior to the signing off the accounts in May 2008 and did that indicate any of the difficulties that Bank of Ireland was about to enter into?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (20 May 2015)

John Paul Phelan: And didn't ... when you say fulsome discussion, like, what did it throw up or are you at liberty to it?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (20 May 2015)

John Paul Phelan: Can I turn to page 31 of the core document? It's a group audit committee minute from Bank of Ireland and in the minutes, it's at the bottom of page 31, I think it is under the heading "Non Audit Fees", it is noted that approximately, and this is a quote, "approximately €6 [million] has been paid in Statutory Audit fees, including SOx, and €15.2 [million] on Non-Audit work". In...

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (20 May 2015)

John Paul Phelan: Okay, okay. I want to turn briefly before I finish to ... Chair ... to the issue-----

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (20 May 2015)

John Paul Phelan: ----- yes, of necessary professional scepticism from the Nyberg report, which I am sure you are familiar with. It has been quoted several times at hearings to other auditors and other witnesses. Mr. Nyberg, at paragraph 3.6.2, stated, "Commission would have expected a bank auditor exercising necessary professional scepticism to have concerns where they were growing property and funding...

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (20 May 2015)

John Paul Phelan: In your view, what was he ... what was he expressing when he said that, you know, he would have expected a bank auditor exercising necessary professional scepticism to have concerns where they were growing property and funding exposure? I mean, is that not a direct statement about all auditors of all Irish banks, including PwC of Bank of Ireland?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (20 May 2015)

John Paul Phelan: Very good.

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (20 May 2015)

John Paul Phelan: Thank you, Chairman. Good afternoon, gentlemen. First of all, I want to start with the core documents, pages 4 and 9. First, on page 4 - it's a minute of a meeting between a Mr. Kieran Kelly from Ernst and Young and the chief executive of EBS, Mr. McGovern, and it's from February 2007 - on page 4 in the third paragraph, I want to reference a quote, the second half of the third paragraph...

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (20 May 2015)

John Paul Phelan: Was it cleared in the following ... was it resolved in the following year, do you know?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (20 May 2015)

John Paul Phelan: Yes, it's not there either.

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (20 May 2015)

John Paul Phelan: Okay. In reference to the first quote from the meeting with Mr. Kelly and Mr. McGovern and the reporting function and the statement that's included in that minute where Mr. Kelly spoke about imprecision in figures again ... this is 2007. It's a kind of a repetition, although it might not be directly related to the quote off of page 9. But do you feel that that matter was addressed...

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (20 May 2015)

John Paul Phelan: Okay. Can I briefly ... I want to put a couple of questions to you in relation to some matters that I raised with other audit firms. In particular, I want to address the issue of necessary professional scepticism, which I've raised with all the others. And Mr. Nyberg in his report ... and it's a quote that I put to other ... your colleagues from other audit firms and I want to put it to...

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (20 May 2015)

John Paul Phelan: I understand. Briefly, though, to return to my initial question, his comment from the Nyberg report ... does it apply to Ernst and Young's auditing of EBS, yes or no?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (20 May 2015)

John Paul Phelan: It's a criticism, if you like, and it's not my words.

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (20 May 2015)

John Paul Phelan: I'm not making any value judgment on it, but he said that he would've expected a bank auditor exercising that scepticism to have had some ... identified some of these failings. That's basically what he's saying.

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