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Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (21 May 2015)

John Paul Phelan: Yes.

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (21 May 2015)

John Paul Phelan: Can I ... my time is limited and I'm not trying to rush you-----

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (21 May 2015)

John Paul Phelan: -----but I want to specifically ask you in relation to the differing views given by Mr. Goggin and------

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (21 May 2015)

John Paul Phelan: -----on subordinated debt

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (21 May 2015)

John Paul Phelan: Okay, okay.

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (21 May 2015)

John Paul Phelan: So, can ... your ... I suppose ... yes, that's a slightly different version than we might have heard already. You've kind of thrown me off my train of thought by having a different ... a slightly different version but can I .... can I ... can I ask you then, in relation to your own opinion as Governor of the Central Bank, being party to those discussions, what was your view on the inclusion...

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (21 May 2015)

John Paul Phelan: Can I ask and I want to put another quote to you, Governor Honohan, your successor, speaking here in the inquiry on 15 January 2015, he stated the following:What I know from conversations, as far as I understand it, is that he [Brian Lenihan] agreed with the idea of an overall guarantee but he also thought that [two named institutions, which I won't name because I'm afraid ... I don't want to...

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (21 May 2015)

John Paul Phelan: Okay. Can I ask you again, though, specifically in relation to what Governor Honohan said here that nationalisation of the two institutions ... that he says Mr. Lenihan supported on the night and the non-inclusion of subordinated debt, specifically-----

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (21 May 2015)

John Paul Phelan: Okay. Can I then turn actually at the end, maybe, to a brief question about the drafting of legislation which took place in the spring of 2008 and the analysis surrounding that drafting with regard to the possibility to nationalise a financial institution and specifically what advice you, as Governor, or the Central Bank in general would have given to the Government on the drafting of that...

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (21 May 2015)

John Paul Phelan: Thank you very much.

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (21 May 2015)

John Paul Phelan: To touch on the two issues briefly, I only have five minutes, Mr. Hurley, that the Chairman has raised. The meetings with the NTMA that were requested by the Department of Finance that took place in the Central Bank, they were referenced by Mr. McDonagh in his evidence here prior at the inquiry. Is there anything that the NTMA were able to inform you, as Governor, about the state of the...

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (21 May 2015)

John Paul Phelan: Did the NTMA express concerns or observations on the solvency of any institutions in the Irish banking sector?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (21 May 2015)

John Paul Phelan: Okay. I want to directly quote Mr. McDonagh, where he said in his evidence earlier to the inquiry that, "the Department of Finance, I think, were becoming understandably concerned maybe about the Central Bank and the regulator and the banking system." What's your understanding of what he meant?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (21 May 2015)

John Paul Phelan: It's referencing the period from mid-September onward. I mean, you think it was normal for the Department of Finance to express concern about the Central Bank and the regulator and the banking system?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (21 May 2015)

John Paul Phelan: Okay, can I ask you about his further evidence that the NTMA were not consulted until 1 a.m. in the morning after the Government had made its decision, he said, in relation to the guarantee. Do you believe that they should have been consulted on that particular night?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (21 May 2015)

John Paul Phelan: You don't have any view. Finally, in relation to the ... one of the central tenets of your contribution here this afternoon, you have said that the blanket guarantee in your view in all its circumstances was the right decision. I think you might have even used the only decision that could have been made on the night of the guarantee. Yet you have also outlined in your evidence that a...

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (21 May 2015)

John Paul Phelan: Sorry, you have already given evidence that when the markets were opening the ELA facility was there to be used by Anglo.

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (21 May 2015)

John Paul Phelan: Yes.

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (21 May 2015)

John Paul Phelan: What I am trying to, I suppose, suggest to you at least, Professor Honohan, as he was at the time, was one of the world leaders on, you know, these financial difficulties, we'll say, that had emerged in other countries. He had done a lot of research and was widely published in this sector. He subsequently became your successor. He gave evidence that is contradictory to what you said, that...

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (21 May 2015)

John Paul Phelan: Okay.

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