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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Remuneration of Senior Civil Servants: Discussion (2 Jun 2021)

John McGuinness: I have never met the person concerned but I do not doubt Mr. Fraser's word for one minute. However, I will say that the arrangement by which TLAC sits within the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform does not look well. We have correspondence. All of the applications for the job were to be sent to Mr. Fraser.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Remuneration of Senior Civil Servants: Discussion (2 Jun 2021)

John McGuinness: I have a letter here which says that in line with a Government decision of 21 February 2012, expressions of interest are invited from all serving Secretaries General to whom TLAC retirement terms apply. It goes on to say that applicants should contact Mr. Fraser before a certain time on a certain day.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Remuneration of Senior Civil Servants: Discussion (2 Jun 2021)

John McGuinness: Did that letter go out?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Remuneration of Senior Civil Servants: Discussion (2 Jun 2021)

John McGuinness: It says in this letter that if a person wishes to express an interest in being considered for the post, he or she is to contact Mr. Martin Fraser by noon on Thursday.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Remuneration of Senior Civil Servants: Discussion (2 Jun 2021)

John McGuinness: Candidates are asked to mark correspondence as private and confidential.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Remuneration of Senior Civil Servants: Discussion (2 Jun 2021)

John McGuinness: That is right.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Remuneration of Senior Civil Servants: Discussion (2 Jun 2021)

John McGuinness: Also among the correspondence is an interaction between TLAC, the Secretary General of the Department and Mr. Fraser about the booklet. The booklet is being discussed in this correspondence. There is also an interaction between the then Secretary General and someone other than the Minister urging that steps be taken to fill the vacancy. My point is that it all looks very cosy from the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Remuneration of Senior Civil Servants: Discussion (2 Jun 2021)

John McGuinness: Mr. Fraser stated he gave the Minister four options and he gave him advice. Did he advise the Minister to select one option in particular?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Remuneration of Senior Civil Servants: Discussion (2 Jun 2021)

John McGuinness: It was completely the decision of the Minister, Deputy McGrath.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Remuneration of Senior Civil Servants: Discussion (2 Jun 2021)

John McGuinness: You just said a minute ago that it was.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Remuneration of Senior Civil Servants: Discussion (2 Jun 2021)

John McGuinness: Without going into the benchmarking issue that was asked about already, from where did the figure of €80,000 come? Who even mentioned the €80,000 first?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Remuneration of Senior Civil Servants: Discussion (2 Jun 2021)

John McGuinness: The only consideration was a political one really - that the amount should be kept under €300,000.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Remuneration of Senior Civil Servants: Discussion (2 Jun 2021)

John McGuinness: He did not care what the figure was once it was under €300,000.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Remuneration of Senior Civil Servants: Discussion (2 Jun 2021)

John McGuinness: That is what I am taking from this conversation.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Remuneration of Senior Civil Servants: Discussion (2 Jun 2021)

John McGuinness: So that stance is down to the Minister, Deputy McGrath.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Remuneration of Senior Civil Servants: Discussion (2 Jun 2021)

John McGuinness: According to the coalition partners, the Tánaiste had nothing to do with it. We do not know the position of the Minister, Deputy Ryan, because he did not reply. The Taoiseach gave a very vague answer. Other officials loosely pointed the finger at the Minister, Deputy McGrath. It appears to me that it was certainly less than transparent. Senior civil servants should have cautioned...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Remuneration of Senior Civil Servants: Discussion (2 Jun 2021)

John McGuinness: By the Minister.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Remuneration of Senior Civil Servants: Discussion (2 Jun 2021)

John McGuinness: How many candidates applied from abroad? How many responded to the advertisements on the Internet?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Remuneration of Senior Civil Servants: Discussion (2 Jun 2021)

John McGuinness: Does Mr. Fraser find it a bit peculiar that no one wants to own this child and that everyone is saying the decision was made by somebody else? The Taoiseach has not yet decided to appear before the committee. Mr. Brady is upset over some letter or other being published in The Irish Times. In fairness to the Minister, Deputy McGrath, he has come before the committee and has been transparent...

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