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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: General Banking Issues: Discussion (27 Sep 2023)

Pearse Doherty: I will move on to other issues. I am sure we will revisit this collectively and individually in the time ahead. I want to challenge Mr. Hayes on something he said. I expect that he will accept that the banks were slow in that their pass through rate in respect of deposits are way lower than the European average, which means that people who have money on savings are not getting the reward...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: General Banking Issues: Discussion (27 Sep 2023)

Pearse Doherty: Yes, but the interest rate on all outstanding mortgages is the data Dr. Ugur is providing. This can be sliced in a number of ways. If we look at, for example-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: General Banking Issues: Discussion (27 Sep 2023)

Pearse Doherty: Yes, but that is not what Mr. Hayes said. New mortgages are a small proportion of the overall mortgage market. The comments, which are running on RTÉ today, are that banks here passed through the second lowest increase in mortgage interest rates between May 2022 and July 2023. I want to dig into that because that is not accurate. It is actually-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: General Banking Issues: Discussion (27 Sep 2023)

Pearse Doherty: But is that new mortgages or all except-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: General Banking Issues: Discussion (27 Sep 2023)

Pearse Doherty: So on all mortgages the average interest rate is 3.45%-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: General Banking Issues: Discussion (27 Sep 2023)

Pearse Doherty: July.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: General Banking Issues: Discussion (27 Sep 2023)

Pearse Doherty: Okay, and last May, which is the reference period Dr. Ugur used, the average interest rate was 2.47%. Does he accept that those figures are accurate?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: General Banking Issues: Discussion (27 Sep 2023)

Pearse Doherty: Okay, so if we go into the ECB data bank and look at outstanding mortgages-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: General Banking Issues: Discussion (27 Sep 2023)

Pearse Doherty: Okay, so when Dr. Ugur gives the reference point from May 2022 to July 2023, what-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: General Banking Issues: Discussion (27 Sep 2023)

Pearse Doherty: Only for new mortgages.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: General Banking Issues: Discussion (27 Sep 2023)

Pearse Doherty: That is the point. That is not what is stated in the opening statement. It is a small word, "new", but new mortgages are a small cohort of the overall mortgage market. We can look at the Central Bank's paper, which actually looked at the pass through of mortgage interest rates in terms of our European peers. Dr. Ugur will accept that far from the impression that is being presented here,...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: General Banking Issues: Discussion (27 Sep 2023)

Pearse Doherty: I am sorry; the Central Bank of Ireland is saying this. It is on page 9 of the Central Bank's paper. Does Dr. Ugur accept this?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: General Banking Issues: Discussion (27 Sep 2023)

Pearse Doherty: So if we use the ECB databank that gives us the percentage points, that will show that from May last year to July this year, there was a 0.98% increase in outstanding mortgage pass through rates in this State. It was a 0.66% increase throughout the eurozone.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: General Banking Issues: Discussion (27 Sep 2023)

Pearse Doherty: Does Dr. Ugur accept that Ireland does not have the second-lowest pass through for all outstanding mortgages?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: General Banking Issues: Discussion (27 Sep 2023)

Pearse Doherty: Does Dr. Ugur accept what the Central Bank stated?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: General Banking Issues: Discussion (27 Sep 2023)

Pearse Doherty: We are not going to mince words but Dr. Ugur is the chief economist for the BPFI and he is telling me that he does not know that the reality is that Ireland is not the second-lowest pass through for outstanding mortgages. That is simply a fact. The fact that he will not acknowledge that-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: General Banking Issues: Discussion (27 Sep 2023)

Pearse Doherty: We will come back to this. However, Dr. Ugur acknowledges that the claim here relates new mortgages. Is that correct?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: General Banking Issues: Discussion (27 Sep 2023)

Pearse Doherty: New mortgages, which is a small-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: General Banking Issues: Discussion (27 Sep 2023)

Pearse Doherty: So now we are back at the same square. Dr. Ugur is saying he does not have the data for outstanding mortgages, yet he is willing to say that the claim is correct. He is, therefore, saying that the claim that we have the second-lowest increase in mortgage interest rates between May 2022 and July 2023 is correct for outstanding mortgages.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: General Banking Issues: Discussion (27 Sep 2023)

Pearse Doherty: It does not say "new mortgages" in the statement.

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