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Joint Oireachtas Committee on the Eighth Amendment of the Constitution: International Developments in the Provision of Health Care Services in the Area of Termination of Pregnancies: Lyndon B. Johnson School of Public Affairs and World Health Organization (11 Oct 2017)

Rónán Mullen: I find it surprising then that on the other hand, the WHO representative would have a problem with a law that would mandate that women would be offered ultrasound possibilities, foetal heartbeat monitoring or indeed, accurate information about possible mental health sequelae that apply in some cases. I am not speaking about mandating that but requiring that it would be offered. I thought...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on the Eighth Amendment of the Constitution: International Developments in the Provision of Health Care Services in the Area of Termination of Pregnancies: Lyndon B. Johnson School of Public Affairs and World Health Organization (11 Oct 2017)

Rónán Mullen: I am anxious to cover quite a bit of ground. Will the Chairman afford me some leeway afterwards? It is my entitlement to seek answers.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on the Eighth Amendment of the Constitution: International Developments in the Provision of Health Care Services in the Area of Termination of Pregnancies: Lyndon B. Johnson School of Public Affairs and World Health Organization (11 Oct 2017)

Rónán Mullen: I have no problem with that, but, please, do not cut me off because I need to cover some ground.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on the Eighth Amendment of the Constitution: International Developments in the Provision of Health Care Services in the Area of Termination of Pregnancies: Lyndon B. Johnson School of Public Affairs and World Health Organization (11 Oct 2017)

Rónán Mullen: I got the answer.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on the Eighth Amendment of the Constitution: International Developments in the Provision of Health Care Services in the Area of Termination of Pregnancies: Lyndon B. Johnson School of Public Affairs and World Health Organization (11 Oct 2017)

Rónán Mullen: Therefore, Dr. Johnson would have no problem with a law that would require people to be offered ultrasound opportunities to hear about possible mental health sequelae and the possibility of hearing the foetal heartbeat? In the context of informed consent, he would have no problem with that being offered in a respectful way but one that accepts a possible refusal of the offer? Is that Dr....

Joint Oireachtas Committee on the Eighth Amendment of the Constitution: International Developments in the Provision of Health Care Services in the Area of Termination of Pregnancies: Lyndon B. Johnson School of Public Affairs and World Health Organization (11 Oct 2017)

Rónán Mullen: I just want a yes or no answer. It is a straight question.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on the Eighth Amendment of the Constitution: International Developments in the Provision of Health Care Services in the Area of Termination of Pregnancies: Lyndon B. Johnson School of Public Affairs and World Health Organization (11 Oct 2017)

Rónán Mullen: Interesting.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on the Eighth Amendment of the Constitution: International Developments in the Provision of Health Care Services in the Area of Termination of Pregnancies: Lyndon B. Johnson School of Public Affairs and World Health Organization (11 Oct 2017)

Rónán Mullen: I note the contrast in the delegates' answers. I turn to their claim, without producing evidence in front of us, although admittedly they did not have time to do so, that there is no evidence that a restriction in the law causes a lower incidence of abortion. Is it not strange that Britain which has a population roughly 15 times the size of Ireland's - 60 million compared to 4 million -...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on the Eighth Amendment of the Constitution: International Developments in the Provision of Health Care Services in the Area of Termination of Pregnancies: Lyndon B. Johnson School of Public Affairs and World Health Organization (11 Oct 2017)

Rónán Mullen: I thank Dr. Ganatra for her answer. Let me draw her-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on the Eighth Amendment of the Constitution: International Developments in the Provision of Health Care Services in the Area of Termination of Pregnancies: Lyndon B. Johnson School of Public Affairs and World Health Organization (11 Oct 2017)

Rónán Mullen: I did not address her.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on the Eighth Amendment of the Constitution: International Developments in the Provision of Health Care Services in the Area of Termination of Pregnancies: Lyndon B. Johnson School of Public Affairs and World Health Organization (11 Oct 2017)

Rónán Mullen: Okay.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on the Eighth Amendment of the Constitution: International Developments in the Provision of Health Care Services in the Area of Termination of Pregnancies: Lyndon B. Johnson School of Public Affairs and World Health Organization (11 Oct 2017)

Rónán Mullen: It is not that I do not want to give people an opportunity to answer my questions fully, but we are involved in a really restricted process which makes a nonsense of the life and death issues with which we are dealing. I am trying to cover important ground. The preamble to the Convention on the Rights of the Child-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on the Eighth Amendment of the Constitution: International Developments in the Provision of Health Care Services in the Area of Termination of Pregnancies: Lyndon B. Johnson School of Public Affairs and World Health Organization (11 Oct 2017)

Rónán Mullen: I wish to ask the delegates from the World Health Organization for their views on two very important matters. The preamble to the Convention on the Rights of the Child of 1989 cites the Declaration of the Rights of the Child of 1959. It states the child "by reason of his physical and mental immaturity, needs special safeguards and care, including appropriate legal protection, before as well...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on the Eighth Amendment of the Constitution: International Developments in the Provision of Health Care Services in the Area of Termination of Pregnancies: Lyndon B. Johnson School of Public Affairs and World Health Organization (11 Oct 2017)

Rónán Mullen: I appeal to the Chairman, given the seriousness of the issues involved and the imbalance in the committee's membership in the points of view held on this issue and also among those invited to address the committee, to at least show me the courtesy of affording me leeway.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on the Eighth Amendment of the Constitution: International Developments in the Provision of Health Care Services in the Area of Termination of Pregnancies: Lyndon B. Johnson School of Public Affairs and World Health Organization (11 Oct 2017)

Rónán Mullen: The preamble refers to the protection of the child before birth.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on the Eighth Amendment of the Constitution: International Developments in the Provision of Health Care Services in the Area of Termination of Pregnancies: Lyndon B. Johnson School of Public Affairs and World Health Organization (11 Oct 2017)

Rónán Mullen: On a point of order, I showed no discourtesy to anybody. I asked questions forensically and sought the right to persist in asking a number of questions. I object to fellow members of the committee seeking to up the ante in this way in dealing with what is a very sensitive issue of human rights and human dignity. I will make contact with the Chairman to put these objections more clearly...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on the Eighth Amendment of the Constitution: Health Care Issues Arising from the Citizens' Assembly Recommendations: Masters of the National Maternity Hospital, Holles Street and the Rotunda Hospital (11 Oct 2017)

Rónán Mullen: I thank the witnesses for coming in to share their knowledge with us. Dr. Mahony spoke a lot about the criminal law but I think she would accept that even in Britain there is a criminal law restricting abortion, that doctors are subject to the criminal law in Britain and that, in general terms, the criminal law is part of helping society distinguish between rogue and good doctors. Would she...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on the Eighth Amendment of the Constitution: Health Care Issues Arising from the Citizens' Assembly Recommendations: Masters of the National Maternity Hospital, Holles Street and the Rotunda Hospital (11 Oct 2017)

Rónán Mullen: What have they been prosecuted for in Northern Ireland?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on the Eighth Amendment of the Constitution: Health Care Issues Arising from the Citizens' Assembly Recommendations: Masters of the National Maternity Hospital, Holles Street and the Rotunda Hospital (11 Oct 2017)

Rónán Mullen: On their assessment of the risk or on a completely different ground?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on the Eighth Amendment of the Constitution: Health Care Issues Arising from the Citizens' Assembly Recommendations: Masters of the National Maternity Hospital, Holles Street and the Rotunda Hospital (11 Oct 2017)

Rónán Mullen: That is different from assessment of risk.

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