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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Nursing Home Charges: Department of Health (15 Feb 2023)

Colm Burke: Mr. Watt is talking about coming back within-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Nursing Home Charges: Department of Health (15 Feb 2023)

Colm Burke: What kind of numbers are we talking about if we are-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Nursing Home Charges: Department of Health (15 Feb 2023)

Colm Burke: Are we talking about 1,000? Are we talking about 2,000?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Nursing Home Charges: Department of Health (15 Feb 2023)

Colm Burke: My understanding is that, in fact, in respect of the nursing home refund scheme, which was set up in 2006, people who were in mental health facilities were refunded. Am I correct about that?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Nursing Home Charges: Department of Health (15 Feb 2023)

Colm Burke: My understanding is that, under the 2006 redress scheme, anyone who was in a mental health facility was refunded as well.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Nursing Home Charges: Department of Health (15 Feb 2023)

Colm Burke: My understanding is that, for instance, in Cork there certainly were cases where people were in a mental health facility and it was a public hospital or a public mental health facility.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Nursing Home Charges: Department of Health (15 Feb 2023)

Colm Burke: They were refunded, as I understand it.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Nursing Home Charges: Department of Health (15 Feb 2023)

Colm Burke: Is Mr. Watt saying he will have a full and detailed report back to us within three months on the other-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Nursing Home Charges: Department of Health (15 Feb 2023)

Colm Burke: Finally, as regards the issue of elderly care and health facilities, a lot of this started in 1976 with the Maud McInerney case. Then we had an Ombudsman's report and we ended up with litigation and a redress scheme. In the same way as we have a Ombudsman for Children, is there not now a need for an ombudsman or a commissioner for elderly care or that whole area? My understanding is that...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Nursing Home Charges: Department of Health (15 Feb 2023)

Colm Burke: I am saying we should have a specific commissioner for older people. Mr. Watt referred to a figure of about €1 billion in respect of nursing home care. My understanding is that such an office would cost about €2 million, which is a very small amount of money in real terms. At the same time, we would have someone focusing on this particular area, which I think would be beneficial.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Nursing Home Charges: Department of Health (15 Feb 2023)

Colm Burke: The nursing home scheme was announced with a refund in 2006. The first challenge in the High Court was in December 2004 and anyone who was alive on or after 8 December 1998 could claim. Am I correct that anyone who was in a public nursing home prior to 8 December 1998 but who had died was not entitled to claim? In other words, it goes back six years from the date of the first challenge in...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Nursing Home Charges: Department of Health (15 Feb 2023)

Colm Burke: December 2004. Then any claims could only be brought if the person was alive on or after the 8 December 1998.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Nursing Home Charges: Department of Health (15 Feb 2023)

Colm Burke: One went back six years.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Nursing Home Charges: Department of Health (15 Feb 2023)

Colm Burke: I presume this was the limitation that was used, which was the six years from December 2004 back to 1998 and, therefore, the family of someone who had died prior to 1998, whether it was in a public or private nursing home, could not claim if they had died prior to that date, as I understand it.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Nursing Home Charges: Department of Health (15 Feb 2023)

Colm Burke: I will just check one other issue, which relates to the Office of Wards of Court. At the time the Office of Wards of Court had a huge number of people in private nursing homes where ward funds were being used to pay for those private nursing homes. Is the Department aware, or has the Department looked at this issue, as to whether there was any correspondence between the Office of Wards of...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Nursing Home Charges: Department of Health (15 Feb 2023)

Colm Burke: I raise this issue because it would be the appropriate office to bring a claim. The office would have had a huge number of people in nursing homes and the nursing homes were being paid out of the ward funds.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Nursing Home Charges: Department of Health (15 Feb 2023)

Colm Burke: That was a request I did make to the Office of Wards of Court. All we were allowed to do was issue a High Court writ and serve it, but not further progress the case. Was there any correspondence at any stage from the Office of Wards of Court? I ask that this issue be checked.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Nursing Home Charges: Department of Health (15 Feb 2023)

Colm Burke: No. The reason the Office of Wards of Court was written to was a large number of people in private nursing homes were wards of court and the cost of their nursing home care was being paid from the ward funds. It would, therefore, have been appropriate for that office to test whether or not the person had a medical card, whether they should be charged in the private nursing homes. This...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Nursing Home Charges: Department of Health (15 Feb 2023)

Colm Burke: I am asking if the Department would check that issue. The Office of Wards of Court was not convinced that people in private nursing homes had an entitlement to claim. This is why I am wondering if there was any correspondence. That would be interesting. I want to move on to another issue. There is a lot of focus on a memo in 2011. Surely there were memos advising the Government in...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Nursing Home Charges: Department of Health (15 Feb 2023)

Colm Burke: Absolutely. Yes, in 2004 and-----

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