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Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Chapter 12 - Financial Impact of Cyber Security Attack
(9 Feb 2023)

Colm Burke: Correct.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Chapter 12 - Financial Impact of Cyber Security Attack
(9 Feb 2023)

Colm Burke: I thank everyone present for making themselves available for dealing with this issue. First, I will make a declaration that I was wearing a different cap in 2004, in that I acted in a legal capacity against both the health boards and the Department of Health. It is important I declare that in respect of these nursing home claims. As I said to the Chair in a private meeting last week, I...

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Chapter 12 - Financial Impact of Cyber Security Attack
(9 Feb 2023)

Colm Burke: It is one of the issues that is happening, where the Department seems to have a particular problem making decisions on issues until such time as there is a challenge and then we are all on deck trying to resolve the issue. Likewise, on the issues relating to the private nursing home cases, none of them were actually dealt with other than that they were settled. There was not an overall...

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Chapter 12 - Financial Impact of Cyber Security Attack
(9 Feb 2023)

Colm Burke: Yes. Are there other areas the committee should know which are within-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Chapter 12 - Financial Impact of Cyber Security Attack
(9 Feb 2023)

Colm Burke: -----the Department's knowledge where there are delays? This was 18 years ago. The nursing homes issue was going on long before 2004, long before the applications to the High Court were made and yet it took the challenge to the High Court to start the process about the Bill and about putting in place the repayment of the public nursing home charges.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Chapter 12 - Financial Impact of Cyber Security Attack
(9 Feb 2023)

Colm Burke: The issue arises where the Department seems consistently to delay arriving at decisions, which then costs the State. I put it to Mr. Watt that surely a process must be put in place that can expedite the decision-making within the Department rather than the way it is now dealing with particular issues. This is one case in particular where there was a huge delay in dealing with the issue, and...

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Chapter 12 - Financial Impact of Cyber Security Attack
(9 Feb 2023)

Colm Burke: It did not deal with any of the issues in 2006. It dealt only with the public nursing homes.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Chapter 12 - Financial Impact of Cyber Security Attack
(9 Feb 2023)

Colm Burke: It did not deal with the issue where the person who had a medical card looked for a public bed in a public nursing home but ended up in a private nursing home. It did not deal with that issue. The Department was aware there were still ongoing cases against the Department and it did not deal with that issue.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Chapter 12 - Financial Impact of Cyber Security Attack
(9 Feb 2023)

Colm Burke: In relation to particular issues arising in the Department, why does it take so long? Surely there must be some co-ordination where there is a risk to the Department and to the HSE? The decision-making process seems to drag on ad infinitumand it ends up with the State having to pay out substantial sums of money rather than actually dealing with the issue. It is my understanding the...

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Chapter 12 - Financial Impact of Cyber Security Attack
(9 Feb 2023)

Colm Burke: Yes. Public nursing homes.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Chapter 12 - Financial Impact of Cyber Security Attack
(9 Feb 2023)

Colm Burke: The question I am still asking is why does it still take so much time-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Chapter 12 - Financial Impact of Cyber Security Attack
(9 Feb 2023)

Colm Burke: The proof of it is there. We are back dealing with an issue 18 years later which is still not fully resolved.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Chapter 12 - Financial Impact of Cyber Security Attack
(9 Feb 2023)

Colm Burke: I accept that. I will move on to the issue of medical negligence claims. The report refers to maternity cases running at about 61% of all claims for medical negligence. I am aware we have reviewed this in the context of how we deal with that, in fairness to Department, the HSE and State Claims Agency. Do we now need to look at other jurisdictions to see how we can better manage and deal...

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Chapter 12 - Financial Impact of Cyber Security Attack
(9 Feb 2023)

Colm Burke: The previous conversation I had with Mr. Watt was not a criticism of him over what happened between 2000 and 2004. I say that just in case he might be thinking I am trying to blame him for what happened at that time. I want to raise the management structure of the 19 maternity hospitals. The big issue is claims in regard to maternity hospitals. The three maternity hospitals in Dublin...

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Chapter 12 - Financial Impact of Cyber Security Attack
(9 Feb 2023)

Colm Burke: We do not have one person in charge in each of the other hospitals, or do we?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Chapter 12 - Financial Impact of Cyber Security Attack
(9 Feb 2023)

Colm Burke: But the chief executive is the CEO of the overall hospital, not of the maternity unit.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Chapter 12 - Financial Impact of Cyber Security Attack
(9 Feb 2023)

Colm Burke: Is that an area we need to look at? Given the level of claims, do we need to have a more structured management in place? I am just raising the question.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Chapter 12 - Financial Impact of Cyber Security Attack
(9 Feb 2023)

Colm Burke: Given the level of claims, would it not be appropriate to look at that?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Chapter 12 - Financial Impact of Cyber Security Attack
(9 Feb 2023)

Colm Burke: Yes, I accept that, but an overall person in charge is what is in place in the other 14 units. At least we are not aware of what the structure is.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Chapter 12 - Financial Impact of Cyber Security Attack
(9 Feb 2023)

Colm Burke: I would appreciate if Mr. Watt would come back to us with the information, in particular who is specifically in charge in the 14 units and what is their status in terms of how long they are in place.

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