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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade: General Scheme of Israeli Settlements in the Occupied Palestinian Territory (Prohibition of Importation of Goods) Bill 2025: Discussion (Resumed) (2 Jul 2025)

John Lahart: It is my slot, which I will hold over until the second round. We will go for a second round. Mr. Liston, I cut you off when you were making your contribution. I will give you time at the end of this second slot to come back in if you can treat your statement in the same way as Mr. O'Neill treated his, with the amendments he made to it. In other words, if you can refer to a hypothetical...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade: General Scheme of Israeli Settlements in the Occupied Palestinian Territory (Prohibition of Importation of Goods) Bill 2025: Discussion (Resumed) (2 Jul 2025)

John Lahart: Indeed.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade: General Scheme of Israeli Settlements in the Occupied Palestinian Territory (Prohibition of Importation of Goods) Bill 2025: Discussion (Resumed) (2 Jul 2025)

John Lahart: Hypothetically.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade: General Scheme of Israeli Settlements in the Occupied Palestinian Territory (Prohibition of Importation of Goods) Bill 2025: Discussion (Resumed) (2 Jul 2025)

John Lahart: I call Senator Alice-Mary Higgins.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade: General Scheme of Israeli Settlements in the Occupied Palestinian Territory (Prohibition of Importation of Goods) Bill 2025: Discussion (Resumed) (2 Jul 2025)

John Lahart: I am sorry for interrupting, but will Mr. Liston clarify the customs piece with regard to the heads of Bill we have been presented with?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade: General Scheme of Israeli Settlements in the Occupied Palestinian Territory (Prohibition of Importation of Goods) Bill 2025: Discussion (Resumed) (2 Jul 2025)

John Lahart: Okay.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade: General Scheme of Israeli Settlements in the Occupied Palestinian Territory (Prohibition of Importation of Goods) Bill 2025: Discussion (Resumed) (2 Jul 2025)

John Lahart: It is a borrowed second, Senator.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade: General Scheme of Israeli Settlements in the Occupied Palestinian Territory (Prohibition of Importation of Goods) Bill 2025: Discussion (Resumed) (2 Jul 2025)

John Lahart: Before coming to the next speaker, Senator O'Loughlin, I have a query from a constituent with a small business in exactly that circumstance of being dependent on software. I do not wish to name the sphere they are in. They were on to me quickly about this. We should bear that in mind because while I am not saying it should be mind-changing, there is at least one case of that.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade: General Scheme of Israeli Settlements in the Occupied Palestinian Territory (Prohibition of Importation of Goods) Bill 2025: Discussion (Resumed) (2 Jul 2025)

John Lahart: There is a vote in the Dáil but we will keep going for a little while. Deputy Ó Laoghaire may speak now or, if he would prefer, he can wait until we come back.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade: General Scheme of Israeli Settlements in the Occupied Palestinian Territory (Prohibition of Importation of Goods) Bill 2025: Discussion (Resumed) (2 Jul 2025)

John Lahart: We will have a ceasefire and suspend until 8.54 p.m. If our guests need a bit more time when we resume then they will get the extra two minutes. Please enjoy a refreshing break.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade: General Scheme of Israeli Settlements in the Occupied Palestinian Territory (Prohibition of Importation of Goods) Bill 2025: Discussion (Resumed) (2 Jul 2025)

John Lahart: I was conferring with one of my colleagues on a business. This is something for the committee to consider. The annual sum in question for the software was substantial. I am talking about €250,000. One can argue that the software might be available somewhere else but this is the reality for a businessperson. We will have other witnesses who may be able to speak about this.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade: General Scheme of Israeli Settlements in the Occupied Palestinian Territory (Prohibition of Importation of Goods) Bill 2025: Discussion (Resumed) (2 Jul 2025)

John Lahart: If I understand correctly when talking about how we have already done this in the case of Ukraine and Russia, that was the EU making the decision. Is that correct? Yes. Going back to the officials yesterday, that would be part of what they would see as the twin-track approach, namely, that this is exclusively a competence of the EU so the banning referred to in the case of Russia and...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade: General Scheme of Israeli Settlements in the Occupied Palestinian Territory (Prohibition of Importation of Goods) Bill 2025: Discussion (Resumed) (2 Jul 2025)

John Lahart: Has any EU state demurred from that decision? Has Hungary not?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade: General Scheme of Israeli Settlements in the Occupied Palestinian Territory (Prohibition of Importation of Goods) Bill 2025: Discussion (Resumed) (2 Jul 2025)

John Lahart: I was also going to make a point, although I would have to do a bit of research on this, that I do not think Hungary has complied with all of that EU policy. I would have to check. A few things that struck me are, the language of the officials yesterday who made excellent contributions as well, notwithstanding their hands were somewhat tied behind their backs because they are awaiting the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade: General Scheme of Israeli Settlements in the Occupied Palestinian Territory (Prohibition of Importation of Goods) Bill 2025: Discussion (Resumed) (2 Jul 2025)

John Lahart: Yes. The other word was the obligation piece. It carries a moral connotation. How many companies did not meet their obligations in regard to the trade and services ban with Russia? There was a whole load of examples where there are still companies trading in services with Russia.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade: General Scheme of Israeli Settlements in the Occupied Palestinian Territory (Prohibition of Importation of Goods) Bill 2025: Discussion (Resumed) (2 Jul 2025)

John Lahart: Okay.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade: General Scheme of Israeli Settlements in the Occupied Palestinian Territory (Prohibition of Importation of Goods) Bill 2025: Discussion (Resumed) (2 Jul 2025)

John Lahart: It is the second obligation that is the tricky one to enforce and police, so we have clarified that. One of the strongest points, among the very strong points the witnesses made this evening, was the Government has really emphasised in the past number of weeks and months that we are a rules-based country, that we depend on international law and rules-based international order - particularly...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade: General Scheme of Israeli Settlements in the Occupied Palestinian Territory (Prohibition of Importation of Goods) Bill 2025: Discussion (Resumed) (2 Jul 2025)

John Lahart: I thank Senator Black for her warm words. If members of the public are viewing this meeting, there is a call for written submissions on the Oireachtas website. We want to get though our work reasonably quickly. Written submissions have to be in by this day week. It is a short enough window but people who are exercised by this ought to have a reasonable idea of what they want to say and...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade: General Scheme of Israeli Settlements in the Occupied Palestinian Territory (Prohibition of Importation of Goods) Bill 2025 (1 Jul 2025)

John Lahart: Apologies have been received from Deputy Bennett. Deputy Ní Raghallaigh will be substituting for her. I advise members of the constitutional requirements that members must be physically present within the confines of the Leinster House complex in order to participate in public meetings. I will not permit a member to participate where they are not adhering to this constitutional...

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