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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: General Banking Matters: Discussion (16 Jun 2021)

John McGuinness: Under what circumstances would IIB Homeloans be exempt from section 7?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: General Banking Matters: Discussion (16 Jun 2021)

John McGuinness: I will come back to Mr. Butler on what I believe to be a very serious allegation that he his making before he concluded his statement. That relates to a bank that advised a customer that he could receive a bank loan if he entered into partnership with associates of the bank. I do not want Mr. Butler to name the bank or the person. I ask him please not to do so, but will he explain that to...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: General Banking Matters: Discussion (16 Jun 2021)

John McGuinness: Mr. Butler's statement says that their associates placed much of it back on deposit with the lending bank -----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: General Banking Matters: Discussion (16 Jun 2021)

John McGuinness: ----- in an account held with the Irish Central Bank.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: General Banking Matters: Discussion (16 Jun 2021)

John McGuinness: Would the Central Bank not clarify those matters because of the impact on the client?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: General Banking Matters: Discussion (16 Jun 2021)

John McGuinness: Is Mr. Butler saying those kinds of transactions that he says took place in 2008 are still having an impact on individuals today, on the borrowers?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: General Banking Matters: Discussion (16 Jun 2021)

John McGuinness: I thank Mr. Butler. In Mr. Lawlor's opening statement, he said he had a document from the bank that refers to his loan as a tracker. Is that correct?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: General Banking Matters: Discussion (16 Jun 2021)

John McGuinness: He said that he received this document after a court case or after he pursued it with the bank.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: General Banking Matters: Discussion (16 Jun 2021)

John McGuinness: Will Mr. Lawlor tell me about the marginal rates? What is the issue around that?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: General Banking Matters: Discussion (16 Jun 2021)

John McGuinness: Mr. Lawlor mentioned that the bank produced a mortgage deed. Is that the correct description?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: General Banking Matters: Discussion (16 Jun 2021)

John McGuinness: Again, I do not want to get into names or into Mr. Lawlor's personal details in any way. I do not want to cause him any distress further to that which has been caused already. Nevertheless, he mentioned that his life had changed completely. Has the bank stopped pursuing him or is it continuing to do so? How stands Mr. Lawlor's house? Does he still live in it? He stated he had had to...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: General Banking Matters: Discussion (16 Jun 2021)

John McGuinness: Mr. Lawlor remains in his home. Is that the case?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: General Banking Matters: Discussion (16 Jun 2021)

John McGuinness: What have been Mr. Lawlor's experiences of going through the courts?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: General Banking Matters: Discussion (16 Jun 2021)

John McGuinness: Deputy Doherty earlier asked Mr. Lawlor for some documents. He might provide them to us.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: General Banking Matters: Discussion (16 Jun 2021)

John McGuinness: I thank Mr. Lawlor. The various court cases that have dealt with this issue have found in favour of the agents. Is that what Mr. Kavanagh outlined?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: General Banking Matters: Discussion (16 Jun 2021)

John McGuinness: Has Mr. Kavanagh ever spoken directly with the bank on this issue, either with the Educational Building Society, EBS, or separately with Allied Irish Bank, AIB?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: General Banking Matters: Discussion (16 Jun 2021)

John McGuinness: I thank Mr. Kavanagh for his evidence. I sympathise with his colleagues on the loss of the two agents who were here the last day making presentations. Unfortunately, they are not here today. I call Deputy Durkan, who would like come in here.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: General Banking Matters: Discussion (16 Jun 2021)

John McGuinness: I thank the Deputy and call Mr. Kavanagh who would like to contribute.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: General Banking Matters: Discussion (16 Jun 2021)

John McGuinness: Mr. Kavanagh, we do not want to draw any conclusions in any of this. This was to give witnesses the opportunity to present their cases, which they did very well. It will now be our job, in the banking report we are concluding, to bring some sort of framework to examining all of this. We will do that in the course of our work. That is as much as we can do, to influence policy and influence...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: General Banking Matters: Discussion (16 Jun 2021)

John McGuinness: How does that work?

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