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Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of Government Chief Information Officer
2020 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
(19 May 2022)

Jennifer Carroll MacNeill: The scale.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of Government Chief Information Officer
2020 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
(19 May 2022)

Jennifer Carroll MacNeill: I am sorry to cut across Mr. Moloney but we have such a short time. How would that compare with a CEO of a commercial semi-state body? Are they under the same requirements then in terms of a scale or data protection concerns around the value? When I look them up in the media, and I appreciate this may not be the same thing, I can see dollar figures. Maybe they are not accurate. What are...

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of Government Chief Information Officer
2020 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
(19 May 2022)

Jennifer Carroll MacNeill: "We" being the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform not "we" being each individual Accounting Officer.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of Government Chief Information Officer
2020 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
(19 May 2022)

Jennifer Carroll MacNeill: On the gender pay gap information Act, I am looking at note 5 of the accounts. It is so basic. I was looking at the accounts of the Peter McVerry Trust, for example. It gives much more detail about the profile of the organisation and gender or the organisation. I am curious about how and when we will get to a point where we can see a better profile of the organisation in terms of...

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of Government Chief Information Officer
2020 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
(19 May 2022)

Jennifer Carroll MacNeill: I see that in the note. We wrote in November 2021 on that. I see in Mr. Moloney's note that he will revert to the committee later in 2022. It is May 2022 now. This scheduled sitting would have been a good opportunity. We would have hoped to see it today or in advance of today to discuss how it would be applied. When will we see it?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of Government Chief Information Officer
2020 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
(19 May 2022)

Jennifer Carroll MacNeill: Does Mr. Moloney know when? This is not directly with Mr. Moloney. It is a frustration we have in many instances. For instance, the Irish Prison Service was here some weeks ago. Deputy Catherine Murphy and I asked about a report, which was then published two or three hours later. That is deeply frustrating because it was clearly available to be published. I am not suggesting that is the...

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of Government Chief Information Officer
2020 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
(19 May 2022)

Jennifer Carroll MacNeill: Turning to the single public service pension, we were going over the figures over the last number of years. It appears to be consistently underestimated every year. I find that interesting and a bit worrying. For example, in 2020 the estimate was €180 million but the figure realised was €279.27 million. Before that the estimate was €160 million and €252 million...

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of Government Chief Information Officer
2020 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
(19 May 2022)

Jennifer Carroll MacNeill: To be paid out of the single -----

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of Government Chief Information Officer
2020 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
(19 May 2022)

Jennifer Carroll MacNeill: Is this is to be paid out of the single public service fund?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of Government Chief Information Officer
2020 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
(19 May 2022)

Jennifer Carroll MacNeill: I am curious about is the trend. I appreciate that things can happen unexpectedly. I am sure you will also anticipate that a specified number of unexpected events will happen each year. However it is underestimated every year. Every year it is wrong. For example, in the 2021 Estimate, how did the Department set the estimate for the single public pension scheme at €240 million when...

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of Government Chief Information Officer
2020 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
(19 May 2022)

Jennifer Carroll MacNeill: Yes.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of Government Chief Information Officer
2020 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
(19 May 2022)

Jennifer Carroll MacNeill: Sorry. In October 2022 the Department sets it in August 2021.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of Government Chief Information Officer
2020 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
(19 May 2022)

Jennifer Carroll MacNeill: But the Department has some visibility on that, does it not?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of Government Chief Information Officer
2020 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
(19 May 2022)

Jennifer Carroll MacNeill: Sorry. The Department does not have visibility over how many people it thinks it will bring into the public service over the next year or two years? Surely budgets have been provided for the hiring of those people and it is anticipated.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of Government Chief Information Officer
2020 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
(19 May 2022)

Jennifer Carroll MacNeill: I understand. I understand how it works I just do not understand why the Department does not have foresight of those things.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of Government Chief Information Officer
2020 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
(19 May 2022)

Jennifer Carroll MacNeill: Each year it is wrong.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of Government Chief Information Officer
2020 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
(19 May 2022)

Jennifer Carroll MacNeill: Badly wrong.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of Government Chief Information Officer
2020 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
(19 May 2022)

Jennifer Carroll MacNeill: It is getting wronger, if I may use that word, by a bigger proportion. It was wrong by 23% in 2018, by 58% in 2019 and by 55% in 2020. I can provide the previous figures but I only have three minutes left, so, if Mr. Moloney does not mind, I will move on and come back to it. I refer to procurement. The committee has spent a long time dealing with issues relating to the children's...

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of Government Chief Information Officer
2020 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
(19 May 2022)

Jennifer Carroll MacNeill: Should it have such a role?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of Government Chief Information Officer
2020 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
(19 May 2022)

Jennifer Carroll MacNeill: Is the OGP satisfied with the experience in the context of the children's hospital, for example? Has best practice been followed? Are there things the OGP can influence now that there is a brand new project? Can it influence a better outcome and process than the Committee of Public Accounts has experienced with the children's hospital?

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