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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Impact of Peat Shortages on the Horticultural Industry: Discussion (20 Jul 2021)

Michael Fitzmaurice: Is Mr. Lucas saying that if the drains were put up in the middle of the bog before 2002, that is an exempted development?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Impact of Peat Shortages on the Horticultural Industry: Discussion (20 Jul 2021)

Michael Fitzmaurice: Basically, it is what I said a few minutes ago.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Impact of Peat Shortages on the Horticultural Industry: Discussion (20 Jul 2021)

Michael Fitzmaurice: I met Mr. Lucas fairly often in his former life, when he was with the National Parks and Wildlife Service. In fairness, he is pretty sensible. He is aware of the type of work we had to do. Consultants in hydrology, ecology and compensatory habitats were brought in. Articles 6(1), (2), (3) and (4) were involved. He knows the habitats directive inside out. Can something like that be...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Impact of Peat Shortages on the Horticultural Industry: Discussion (20 Jul 2021)

Michael Fitzmaurice: I asked whether there had been any consultation with Europe. Let us face it; with regard to the Departments in this country, forestry - which is a total fiasco - roads, bogs, bridges, ports and anything else you want to mention are in bother due to this European legislation. Legislation was drafted before. Has the Department liaised with Europe? Let us look at Germany and many other...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Impact of Peat Shortages on the Horticultural Industry: Discussion (20 Jul 2021)

Michael Fitzmaurice: Can I be honest with Mr. Nugent? I am not into milling peat but I know bogs better than anyone because I was reared in the middle of one. If any person with 80, 100 or 200 acres goes through the screening-out, EIA and appropriate assessment processes that apply to works over the 30 ha threshold, the council will be afraid to give him or her planning permission. That is the reality. Our...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Impact of Peat Shortages on the Horticultural Industry: Discussion (20 Jul 2021)

Michael Fitzmaurice: I did as well.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Impact of Peat Shortages on the Horticultural Industry: Discussion (20 Jul 2021)

Michael Fitzmaurice: The habitats directive that has caused all these problems was agreed between 1986 and 1992.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Impact of Peat Shortages on the Horticultural Industry: Discussion (20 Jul 2021)

Michael Fitzmaurice: When Deputy Carthy was on about Bord na Móna walking off the pitch, Mr. Nugent said it did not do so. I would say it ran off the pitch. Every one of us have met Bord na Móna before and there was supposed to be this just transition to 2030. We were looking at a lovely book on it and then we got word about that High Court case. There was an opportunity for Bord na Móna to...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Impact of Peat Shortages on the Horticultural Industry: Discussion (20 Jul 2021)

Michael Fitzmaurice: I was watching that case when it went in. How were those cases not appealed on a point of law?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Impact of Peat Shortages on the Horticultural Industry: Discussion (20 Jul 2021)

Michael Fitzmaurice: Was the legislation badly put together so? Was it just a matter of putting legislation together in a better way when that was the feeling after the first round of a case?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Impact of Peat Shortages on the Horticultural Industry: Discussion (20 Jul 2021)

Michael Fitzmaurice: The witnesses talk about not going down the route of a single consent system in legislation and they say the route we are on at the moment would be better because one route would take as long as the other. I mention someone who has 50 ha and has to get an IPC licence and go through all of this. This is similar to the quarry situation that the Departments are involved in, which is a total...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Impact of Peat Shortages on the Horticultural Industry: Discussion (20 Jul 2021)

Michael Fitzmaurice: I want to go back to one thing-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Impact of Peat Shortages on the Horticultural Industry: Discussion (20 Jul 2021)

Michael Fitzmaurice: The witnesses heard Deputy Carthy outline it well. The system that is there at the moment is loaded against you, to put it simply. The Departments are happy and the witnesses have admitted that there is some coming in from other countries.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Impact of Peat Shortages on the Horticultural Industry: Discussion (20 Jul 2021)

Michael Fitzmaurice: We are talking about two different things.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Impact of Peat Shortages on the Horticultural Industry: Discussion (20 Jul 2021)

Michael Fitzmaurice: There are certain EPA licences for which you do not have to go through the same rigmarole as when you are going through EIA and appropriate assessment on the bogs. I have done all this and Mr. Lucas can vouch for everything we have gone through on the bogs. I have one question for all the witnesses and Mr. Lucas will be familiar with this. Under the habitats directive, you had to say...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Impact of Peat Shortages on the Horticultural Industry: Discussion (20 Jul 2021)

Michael Fitzmaurice: This question is for the Department of the Environment, Climate and Communications.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Impact of Peat Shortages on the Horticultural Industry: Discussion (20 Jul 2021)

Michael Fitzmaurice: I know that.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Impact of Peat Shortages on the Horticultural Industry: Discussion (20 Jul 2021)

Michael Fitzmaurice: I know all of that. I am saying that when the Department is judging a bog, it has to see if it is degraded or restorable within a 30-year period. That is set down by the EU. Am I right or wrong in that?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Impact of Peat Shortages on the Horticultural Industry: Discussion (20 Jul 2021)

Michael Fitzmaurice: What I am making very clear is that there comes a stage to make a decision on whether a bog is restorable or not, regardless of whether it is designated. A lot of those bogs are degraded, and they will never be restorable. We were better off getting a bit of milled peat off them and making sure that we saved the jobs in those areas and introducing whatever legislation was required to make...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Impact of Peat Shortages on the Horticultural Industry: Discussion (20 Jul 2021)

Michael Fitzmaurice: To be honest, the season is nearly gone. We are heading into August and all we had was a talking shop for the past three months. To be frank about it, it is putting a ferocious onus and probably a load against it because the environmental lobby, Government bodies and Departments seem to be more interested in closing things in this country than in keeping workers producing stuff. I do not...

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