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Patient Safety (Notifiable Patient Safety Incidents) Bill 2019: Report Stage (Resumed) (15 Feb 2023)

David Cullinane: I will support the amendments. I met HIQA representatives regarding these amendments a number of weeks ago. They made some interesting points that surprised me. The first was that they believed most of the powers being made available through these amendments are already available to HIQA. I got the sense that they did not see great value in what is being proposed. I was a member of...

Patient Safety (Notifiable Patient Safety Incidents) Bill 2019: Report Stage (Resumed) (15 Feb 2023)

David Cullinane: It is important as well for that information to go out. This will not just be for CervicalCheck; it will be for all cancer screening services. I welcome the Minister's commitment to work with the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Health and to keep us informed on what the audit will look like. I also welcome his commitment that the 221+ group will be consulted on that element of it as well....

Patient Safety (Notifiable Patient Safety Incidents) Bill 2019: Report Stage (Resumed) (15 Feb 2023)

David Cullinane: It will not last.

Patient Safety (Notifiable Patient Safety Incidents) Bill 2019: Report Stage (Resumed) (15 Feb 2023)

David Cullinane: I welcome the Minister's comments on the lab at the Coombe Hospital. Obviously we want to see a ratcheting up and expansion of services at the Coombe Hospital. If we can repatriate a large part of the screening services for CervicalCheck in that facility, it would be really welcome. I ask that the Minister keep us informed of the ratcheting up of staffing and capacity as it happens. That...

Patient Safety (Notifiable Patient Safety Incidents) Bill 2019: Report Stage (Resumed) (15 Feb 2023)

David Cullinane: I am okay with it.

Patient Safety (Notifiable Patient Safety Incidents) Bill 2019: Report Stage (Resumed) (15 Feb 2023)

David Cullinane: We are more than happy to let the Minister respond.

Patient Safety (Notifiable Patient Safety Incidents) Bill 2019: Report Stage (Resumed) (15 Feb 2023)

David Cullinane: It has got very messy when we have four or five amendment lists, amendments to amendments and so on. The manner in which this Bill was crafted and worked its way through the Oireachtas was a bit chaotic. Notwithstanding that, I thank the Minister for his co-operation in recent weeks. We did the right thing in December in pausing this and taking the time to engage with the 221+ group. I...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Nursing Home Charges: Department of Health (15 Feb 2023)

David Cullinane: I welcome Mr. Watt. I want to speak about the issue of those people with disabilities in section 38 and section 39 organisations. I have discussed this privately with Mr. Watt as well and with the Minister for Health. The issue here is voluntary contributions that were paid in these homes and whether at the time they were recovered with charges under the Act. At the time when the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Nursing Home Charges: Department of Health (15 Feb 2023)

David Cullinane: Then, while we do not know exactly how many, we know that several hundred people applied anyway to the scheme. They were refused and then they appealed and the HSE or the Department's appeals officer upheld their assertion that, in fact, the voluntary contributions on their behalf were recoverable. That was the appeals officer's decision.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Nursing Home Charges: Department of Health (15 Feb 2023)

David Cullinane: Yes, but the Department at that point was taking three cases to the High Court on a point of law and then got advice from senior counsel that, in fact, we could lose those cases. The 512 cases in which people appealed related to three homes, St. Michael's, Cheeverstown House and the Daughters of Charity. They were paid, so €20 million was made available for those 512 applicants who...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Nursing Home Charges: Department of Health (15 Feb 2023)

David Cullinane: What Mr. Watt was saying earlier then is that there may well be analogous residents as well who may be covered, that he does not know the full extent of that, and that a trawl is being done by the Department. In the 2011 memo that went to four senior Ministers at the time, it is very clear. There is no ambiguity in the memo that was sent. It states: “In addition, there are other...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Nursing Home Charges: Department of Health (15 Feb 2023)

David Cullinane: Mr. Watt is Secretary General in the Department of Health and he was in the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform before he came to the Department of Health. I am sure he would agree that when memos are being prepared for Government and figures like €360 million are put into these, those figures do not fall from the sky but are based on something. They are obviously based on...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Nursing Home Charges: Department of Health (15 Feb 2023)

David Cullinane: Mr. Watt said that the information was not there.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Nursing Home Charges: Department of Health (15 Feb 2023)

David Cullinane: But the Department did not-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Nursing Home Charges: Department of Health (15 Feb 2023)

David Cullinane: With respect to Mr. Watt, the Department at the time did not agree with the basis of the claims that were made by St. Michael's, Cheeverstown or the Daughters of Charity but eventually did. The memo here is quite clear, which to read it again, states: "In addition, there are other institutions similar to St. Michael's, Cheeverstown and the Daughters of Charity with residents who would have...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Nursing Home Charges: Department of Health (15 Feb 2023)

David Cullinane: I am not sure that that is what the memo was referring to here, which is why we need to get the information from-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Nursing Home Charges: Department of Health (15 Feb 2023)

David Cullinane: It would be incredible for us to have to accept that only those three homes which lodged an appeal had their appeals upheld, that they hit the jackpot, just happened to be the people who were entitled and that they got paid. The thinking being presented here is that anybody else who was analogous, who did not appeal or apply, were people who were thought of as not entitled to this redress....

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Nursing Home Charges: Department of Health (15 Feb 2023)

David Cullinane: It is actually not that complex at all, Mr. Watt.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Nursing Home Charges: Department of Health (15 Feb 2023)

David Cullinane: I will bring him back to what happened. It is complex in respect of trying to resolve it now, but was not complex at the time, which is my point. I ask Mr. Watt to bear with me, please?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Nursing Home Charges: Department of Health (15 Feb 2023)

David Cullinane: There were people in similar institutions to these three homes, and it was the accepted HSE view and determination at the time that the repayment scheme was put in place, who did not qualify. These people did not make any applications, and if they did, they certainly did not appeal. The only three homes which appealed are the three homes I have mentioned. There were 512 applicants in those...

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