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Joint Oireachtas Committee on the Eighth Amendment of the Constitution: Business of Joint Committee (22 Nov 2017)

Rónán Mullen: Is the Chair ruling that there is to be no further discussion on this? I have not been given an opportunity to put many individual concerns on the record.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on the Eighth Amendment of the Constitution: Business of Joint Committee (22 Nov 2017)

Rónán Mullen: I have approached the Chair.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on the Eighth Amendment of the Constitution: Business of Joint Committee (22 Nov 2017)

Rónán Mullen: I did the work.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on the Eighth Amendment of the Constitution: Business of Joint Committee (22 Nov 2017)

Rónán Mullen: The Deputy did not look for more time. I actually did the work.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on the Eighth Amendment of the Constitution: International Context: Dr. Patricia Lohr, British Pregnancy Advisory Service (22 Nov 2017)

Rónán Mullen: Dr. Lohr has been invited here although her group performs abortions including late-term abortions without time limit, up to birth in some cases. She does not believe and she advocates for a scenario where unborn babies have no right to life. One thing that has not been put on the record is that BPAS received a scathing health and safety reprimand from the British Care Quality Commission...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on the Eighth Amendment of the Constitution: International Context: Dr. Patricia Lohr, British Pregnancy Advisory Service (22 Nov 2017)

Rónán Mullen: I believe it is one in five. In Ireland, taking Dr. Lohr's figures, it is approximately one in 19, so not quite four times the rate in Britain. Dr. Lohr is not the first witness to come before the committee not to note that. I do not believe she is suggesting that three times as many women from Ireland are going to the Netherlands as to Britain for abortion. Does she accept that we have a...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on the Eighth Amendment of the Constitution: International Context: Dr. Patricia Lohr, British Pregnancy Advisory Service (22 Nov 2017)

Rónán Mullen: Can she give us an idea of how many over the years?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on the Eighth Amendment of the Constitution: International Context: Dr. Patricia Lohr, British Pregnancy Advisory Service (22 Nov 2017)

Rónán Mullen: I accept that clarification.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on the Eighth Amendment of the Constitution: International Context: Dr. Patricia Lohr, British Pregnancy Advisory Service (22 Nov 2017)

Rónán Mullen: What I am really saying is that unless three times as many women are travelling to the Netherlands, our rate is vastly lower than the British rate. I am asking if the witness would acknowledge that disparity in our abortion rates.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on the Eighth Amendment of the Constitution: International Context: Dr. Patricia Lohr, British Pregnancy Advisory Service (22 Nov 2017)

Rónán Mullen: As to the questions about Dr. Lohr's involvement with abortions and an estimate as to how many she has carried out, I also wanted to ask what would be the latest term abortion she carried out.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on the Eighth Amendment of the Constitution: International Context: Dr. Patricia Lohr, British Pregnancy Advisory Service (22 Nov 2017)

Rónán Mullen: I just want to put it on record that there are quite a few more I would like to ask but I realise there is not enough time.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on the Eighth Amendment of the Constitution: International Context: Dr. Patricia Lohr, British Pregnancy Advisory Service (22 Nov 2017)

Rónán Mullen: It was not always life-saving, health-related or necessary medical treatment.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on the Eighth Amendment of the Constitution: International Context: Dr. Patricia Lohr, British Pregnancy Advisory Service (22 Nov 2017)

Rónán Mullen: What is the estimate of overall number of abortions carried out?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on the Eighth Amendment of the Constitution: International Context: Dr. Patricia Lohr, British Pregnancy Advisory Service (22 Nov 2017)

Rónán Mullen: I thank the witness.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on the Eighth Amendment of the Constitution: Termination in Cases of Foetal Abnormality: Ms Liz McDermott, One Day More (22 Nov 2017)

Rónán Mullen: The Deputy's intervention was completely unnecessary given the experience of the committee thus far.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on the Eighth Amendment of the Constitution: Termination in Cases of Foetal Abnormality: Ms Liz McDermott, One Day More (22 Nov 2017)

Rónán Mullen: No, it was not. The intervention was a discourtesy to the speaker.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on the Eighth Amendment of the Constitution: Termination in Cases of Foetal Abnormality: Ms Liz McDermott, One Day More (22 Nov 2017)

Rónán Mullen: I welcome Ms Liz McDermott. We are two thirds into the process of the committee and today is the first time somebody who is in favour of the eighth amendment had a platform alone, so to speak, with a session devoted to them. What she has had to say is just so radically different from everything that has gone before. It is so noteworthy. To correct one thing, Deputy Daly was picking Ms...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on the Eighth Amendment of the Constitution: Termination in Cases of Foetal Abnormality: Ms Liz McDermott, One Day More (22 Nov 2017)

Rónán Mullen: Everybody here seems to agree that it would be wrong to suggest a decision to go to Britain. I think Deputy O'Sullivan talked about "necessary non-directive". Even that is very undefined. I did not succeed in getting the HSE crisis pregnancy programme representatives last week to define directive counselling. We have a Constitution that protects the unborn. Ms McDermott has been very...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on the Eighth Amendment of the Constitution: Termination in Cases of Foetal Abnormality: Ms Liz McDermott, One Day More (22 Nov 2017)

Rónán Mullen: If that is the case, then, that there is another human being who has rights in this situation, does Ms McDermott think that the whole area of directive counselling needs to be re-imagined? If we have a Constitution that protects the unborn, ought doctors not to be encouraging people, instead of leaving a cold choice and saying, "It is up to you; we are going to wash our hands of that...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on the Eighth Amendment of the Constitution: Termination in Cases of Foetal Abnormality: Ms Liz McDermott, One Day More (22 Nov 2017)

Rónán Mullen: Supposing Ms McDermott's vision and mine, as it happens, does not prevail, and the State withdraws legal and social support for these very sick babies in these situations, would that lead to more people having abortions or terminating the pregnancy? Does Ms McDermott think it would impact on the culture? Does she foresee any other consequences?

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