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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Issues Related to the National Lottery: Discussion (15 Dec 2021)

John McGuinness: We resume in public session. We are joined by Mr. Andrew Algeo, chief executive officer, Premier Lotteries Ireland; and Ms Carol Boate and Mr. Derek Donoghue of the Office of the Regulator of the National Lottery. Before we begin, I ask members and witnesses to be advised of the note on privilege, whereby full privilege is extended to members and those who are conducting the meeting from...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Issues Related to the National Lottery: Discussion (15 Dec 2021)

John McGuinness: I thank Mr. Algeo. I invite Deputy Durkan to put his questions.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Insurance Issues: Engagement with Insurance Companies (15 Dec 2021)

John McGuinness: Does Deputy Tóibín have further questions?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Insurance Issues: Engagement with Insurance Companies (15 Dec 2021)

John McGuinness: I ask the witnesses to comment on whether there is an arbitration clause in their organisations' Covid-19 business interruption policies for any disputes, for claims cases to be sent to secret arbitration that is not open to the public, the information arising from which is not available to the public, and the whole notion that this process will cost the individual €100,000.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Issues Related to the National Lottery: Discussion (15 Dec 2021)

John McGuinness: I remind the Deputy of the limited time she has remaining.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Issues Related to the National Lottery: Discussion (15 Dec 2021)

John McGuinness: Mr. Algeo said the money from unclaimed prizes goes back into promoting the lottery. Is that correct?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Issues Related to the National Lottery: Discussion (15 Dec 2021)

John McGuinness: I understand that. What has been unclaimed so far in 2021?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Issues Related to the National Lottery: Discussion (15 Dec 2021)

John McGuinness: In 2020, the figure was €17 million. What was it in 2019?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Issues Related to the National Lottery: Discussion (15 Dec 2021)

John McGuinness: Could Mr. Algeo go back over those figures? The figure for 2020 was €17 million. What was it in 2019?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Issues Related to the National Lottery: Discussion (15 Dec 2021)

John McGuinness: What was it the previous year, in 2018?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Issues Related to the National Lottery: Discussion (15 Dec 2021)

John McGuinness: Those sums of money are ring-fenced for the promotion of the lottery. From that, I can take it that these vast amounts of money were spent each year on advertising and general promotion of one kind or another.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Issues Related to the National Lottery: Discussion (15 Dec 2021)

John McGuinness: Is that not a fantastic amount of money to be spending on promotion? Mr. Algeo was asked earlier to break out the figure, as he put it, but the figure is already broken out because the money has to be ring-fenced for promotion. We can safely say that, for PR and promotion, all of this money was spent. Therefore, we have a figure that is broken out from the company’s accounts. Can...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Issues Related to the National Lottery: Discussion (15 Dec 2021)

John McGuinness: Generally, what is that?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Issues Related to the National Lottery: Discussion (15 Dec 2021)

John McGuinness: Could we at least be given a list of the headings under promotion and the percentages of expenditure under each of the headings in the years from 2015 onwards?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Issues Related to the National Lottery: Discussion (15 Dec 2021)

John McGuinness: Therefore, there is no way for me to prove to the general public that PLI actually spent €20 million in 2015 and €16 million in 2017. There is no way for me to comfort the general public with the fact that all the amounts we are talking about for each of the years were actually spent on promotion. We do not know if there was a leakage from the amount of money into general...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Issues Related to the National Lottery: Discussion (15 Dec 2021)

John McGuinness: We will take that up with him then. There are a number of times the lottery winnings have not been claimed. In 2020, €17 million was unclaimed. Is that right?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Issues Related to the National Lottery: Discussion (15 Dec 2021)

John McGuinness: How many prizes would that represent?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Issues Related to the National Lottery: Discussion (15 Dec 2021)

John McGuinness: Do the witnesses have a breakdown of those that they could share with the committee? Do they have a general response to the categories of prizes and the numbers unclaimed? Could that data be provided after the meeting?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Issues Related to the National Lottery: Discussion (15 Dec 2021)

John McGuinness: According to the witnesses, the €19 million prize will have to be claimed and there will be a winner.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Issues Related to the National Lottery: Discussion (15 Dec 2021)

John McGuinness: The top prize is now €19 million. That will certainly be won. There must be a winner.

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