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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Environment, Culture and the Gaeltacht: Proposed Incinerator at Poolbeg: Dublin City Council (22 Jan 2014)

Kevin Humphreys: District heating system expenditure was approved by city council management rather than those responsible for the overall project. It is all part of what I would regard as the same body of expenditure. A remark was made in answer to Deputy Brian Stanley's question to the effect that Covanta had won the project. Is that technically correct?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Environment, Culture and the Gaeltacht: Proposed Incinerator at Poolbeg: Dublin City Council (22 Jan 2014)

Kevin Humphreys: Covanta never tendered for the project.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Environment, Culture and the Gaeltacht: Proposed Incinerator at Poolbeg: Dublin City Council (22 Jan 2014)

Kevin Humphreys: It was actually included in chapter 11, or whatever chapter it was, but it was technically bankrupt when the project was being put to tender.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Environment, Culture and the Gaeltacht: Proposed Incinerator at Poolbeg: Dublin City Council (22 Jan 2014)

Kevin Humphreys: Elsam or Dong stepped out. Was there not an opportunity at that stage to cut our losses and change the contract? The dance partners were changing.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Environment, Culture and the Gaeltacht: Proposed Incinerator at Poolbeg: Dublin City Council (22 Jan 2014)

Kevin Humphreys: The alarm bells were clearly ringing in 2007 to suggest the project was not viable. Dance partners were changing. Covanta was stepping in and Elsam and Dong were stepping out. Without great scrutiny, the contract was passed on to Covanta.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Environment, Culture and the Gaeltacht: Proposed Incinerator at Poolbeg: Dublin City Council (22 Jan 2014)

Kevin Humphreys: Perhaps the delegation might help me with this. Could someone explain to me how the contract was managed and governed? Was there a management programme? Was there a group responsible for management on a monthly basis?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Environment, Culture and the Gaeltacht: Proposed Incinerator at Poolbeg: Dublin City Council (22 Jan 2014)

Kevin Humphreys: How often did that small team in the city council meet?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Environment, Culture and the Gaeltacht: Proposed Incinerator at Poolbeg: Dublin City Council (22 Jan 2014)

Kevin Humphreys: However, significant decisions were being made during the period in question. We now have no way of tracking the decisions through minutes of meetings. We do not know what was even discussed at the level in question?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Environment, Culture and the Gaeltacht: Proposed Incinerator at Poolbeg: Dublin City Council (22 Jan 2014)

Kevin Humphreys: There is a set of changes relating to the put-or-pay element of the contract. Will somebody explain how these changes came about? Who agreed to them?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Environment, Culture and the Gaeltacht: Proposed Incinerator at Poolbeg: Dublin City Council (22 Jan 2014)

Kevin Humphreys: I will not take up Mr. Keegan on this issue to any great extent because he was not present at the time in question. When the put or pay clause was included in the Panda agreement, it was explained at city council level that the council would get a preferential tonnage rate and it could sell this tonnage to the incinerator and make a profit on it. The Panda judgment did not make a difference...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Environment, Culture and the Gaeltacht: Proposed Incinerator at Poolbeg: Dublin City Council (22 Jan 2014)

Kevin Humphreys: I welcome Mr. Owen Keegan and his officials. Certainly this issue has blighted Dublin south east for the past 17 years. If it was not this particular incinerator it was the illegal one that was on Sir John Rogerson's Quay. One of the first protests was Ban the Burn. It is a long time running. It was initially conceived by John FitzGerald, followed on by John Tierney and now Owen Keegan,...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Environment, Culture and the Gaeltacht: Proposed Incinerator at Poolbeg: Dublin City Council (22 Jan 2014)

Kevin Humphreys: The local authority waste collection report of 1998 already indicated that that was the direction in which it was going.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Environment, Culture and the Gaeltacht: Proposed Incinerator at Poolbeg: Dublin City Council (22 Jan 2014)

Kevin Humphreys: The point I am making is that it was not unforeseen, even as far back as 1998, as some of the local authorities had already gone private and there were indications of what would happen long before 2007 and 2008 - before contracts were signed. That was the direction in which things were already going.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Environment, Culture and the Gaeltacht: Proposed Incinerator at Poolbeg: Dublin City Council (22 Jan 2014)

Kevin Humphreys: I beg to differ. We will argue the point at a later stage. I think it was blatantly obvious from a very early stage. May I refer Mr. Keegan to page 9 of his presentation, where the spend to date on the project is shown as €96.27 million? Does that take into account the district heating, piping and so on that has been carried out?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Environment, Culture and the Gaeltacht: Proposed Incinerator at Poolbeg: Dublin City Council (22 Jan 2014)

Kevin Humphreys: From where would the heating come? Is it about €10 million that has been spent on the district heating project?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Environment, Culture and the Gaeltacht: Proposed Incinerator at Poolbeg: Dublin City Council (22 Jan 2014)

Kevin Humphreys: I am just a bit lost here. Where exactly is the heat source for the district heating if the incinerator does not go ahead?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Environment, Culture and the Gaeltacht: Proposed Incinerator at Poolbeg: Dublin City Council (22 Jan 2014)

Kevin Humphreys: Can Mr. Keegan give the committee an example of a separate heat source?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Environment, Culture and the Gaeltacht: Proposed Incinerator at Poolbeg: Dublin City Council (22 Jan 2014)

Kevin Humphreys: This is refreshing, as I served on Dublin City Council up to the last general election and the district heating project was always firmly hooked on to the incinerator. It was also explained by Matt Twomey that district heating was always to be dependent on the incinerator, and he spoke about the experience in Copenhagen, where district heating was run off incinerators. To be honest, this...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Environment, Culture and the Gaeltacht: Proposed Incinerator at Poolbeg: Dublin City Council (22 Jan 2014)

Kevin Humphreys: Let us be straight on this issue. The expenditure of €10 million was for a district heating project run with the incinerator. Is that correct? Would Dublin City Council have proceeded with the €10 million investment if it had not believed the incinerator would be built?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Environment, Culture and the Gaeltacht: Proposed Incinerator at Poolbeg: Dublin City Council (22 Jan 2014)

Kevin Humphreys: What was?

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