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Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2017 (17 Oct 2019)

Seán Fleming: The average payment so far was approximately €8,000.

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2017 (17 Oct 2019)

Seán Fleming: How many claims has Caranua on hand?

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2017 (17 Oct 2019)

Seán Fleming: What is the figure?

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2017 (17 Oct 2019)

Seán Fleming: When we multiple €13,000 by 300, we get approximately €4 million. Caranua will have €8 million in funds between now and its wind-down. Based on the cases to date, the average payment is €13,000 per case. Caranua has received 11,500 applications. Some payments will be higher than €13,000 and some will be lower. However, if the average remains roughly as...

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2017 (17 Oct 2019)

Seán Fleming: That is fine but Caranua is closed for applications. Will it double the payment for the last applicants to use up the money?

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2017 (17 Oct 2019)

Seán Fleming: Of course not, but Ms Downes is not giving me an explanation. Based on Caranua's experience to date and its administrative costs, it should cost approximately €4 million to deal with the final 300 cases if they are similar to the previous several thousand cases, which they should be. Did Caranua close it off too late? I will ask the chairman of the board. Let us say Caranua makes...

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2017 (17 Oct 2019)

Seán Fleming: Mr. O'Callaghan can see it is very simple.

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2017 (17 Oct 2019)

Seán Fleming: We are into a new situation. Caranua has closed its files and has 317 cases left. It is clear, based on past experience, that it will not utilise most of the remaining funding. Will Caranua re-advertise or reopen for applications?

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2017 (17 Oct 2019)

Seán Fleming: We understand Caranua will write the cheques. That has been said four times.

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2017 (17 Oct 2019)

Seán Fleming: Caranua has 317 live cases.

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2017 (17 Oct 2019)

Seán Fleming: It also has a big box with another 300 cases in it.

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2017 (17 Oct 2019)

Seán Fleming: Caranua has 378 cases on file that are not live, open cases. They are late applications.

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2017 (17 Oct 2019)

Seán Fleming: If, when Caranua winds up in June 2020 and the board is no longer in place, cases are taken against it or appeals are made and there is a tab to be picked up, will that cost fall on the Department? As we all know, residual issues can arise.

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2017 (17 Oct 2019)

Seán Fleming: Will it come out of the funding earmarked for the children's hospital? Will it come out of the moneys from the Christian Brothers - the excess moneys beyond the €110 million or whatever the figure is - that are to go to the children's hospital?

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2017 (17 Oct 2019)

Seán Fleming: It is going straight to the children's hospital. I would hate to think that would be clawed back if there are any residual costs to the Department.

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2017 (17 Oct 2019)

Seán Fleming: The Department will have to carry the cost. Is that what Mr. Ó hAonghusa is saying?

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2017 (17 Oct 2019)

Seán Fleming: The board is closing shop at the end of June. We have never seen its annual financial statements completed on time. Based on the experience of this year, last year and the previous year, Caranua's final financial statement will not come until several months after the date on which it is expected to close. I do not know how that will work.

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2017 (17 Oct 2019)

Seán Fleming: We are six months away.

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2017 (17 Oct 2019)

Seán Fleming: There is a big list of such Bills. It is difficult to see the timeline being easily met because we do not know which Government will move the Bill next year. I apologise to Deputy Munster for delaying her.

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2017 (17 Oct 2019)

Seán Fleming: Was that an administrative date?

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