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Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (10 Jul 2018)

Michael McDowell: The Members who have come to the House should know that the Minister has suggested we should consider abandoning the debate owing to an absence of interest in the debate among Members of the House. I am sorry that I have had to call them here to show that they are interested in the debate. I asked the Minister to indicate whether he proposed to amend section 19(1)(f) in order that it would...

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (10 Jul 2018)

Michael McDowell: That is pure obstinacy. It is strange that one person is described as a member nominated by the Law Society of Ireland whereas another person is described as a member nominated by the chairperson of the general council of the Bar of Ireland. I do not see why there is a different phraseology relating to the two different people.

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (10 Jul 2018)

Michael McDowell: I move amendment No. 44:In page 14, to delete lines 11 to 15 and substitute the following:"(2) The Minister shall appoint pay persons, the subject of recommendation under section 12(3), to be members of the commissions.".

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (10 Jul 2018)

Michael McDowell: I move amendment No. 46:In page 14, lines 27 to 29, to delete all words from and including “the” where it secondly occurs in line 27 down to and including “meeting” in line 29 and substitute “the acting Chairperson shall be a member who holds judicial office in accordance with seniority”. Section 15(3)(b) outlines that at a meeting of the commission,...

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (10 Jul 2018)

Michael McDowell: I am sorry, but I am only going by the public record. No one in his or her right mind - I certainly include the Minister, Deputy Flanagan, in that context - could believe it was fair or proper to say that there should be nine members as a quorum, of whom five should be lay members. If ten members turn up and four of them are lay people, the meeting will dissolve. How ridiculous is that?...

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (10 Jul 2018)

Michael McDowell: I will revert on those.

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (10 Jul 2018)

Michael McDowell: I will listen to others and perhaps the Minister.

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (10 Jul 2018)

Michael McDowell: I thought he might have something to say but he does not.

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (10 Jul 2018)

Michael McDowell: I never said a word of that.

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (10 Jul 2018)

Michael McDowell: It is not international best practice.

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (10 Jul 2018)

Michael McDowell: Is this provision in English or Welsh law?

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (10 Jul 2018)

Michael McDowell: That is not international best practice.

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (10 Jul 2018)

Michael McDowell: Is there a requirement that nobody should-----

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (10 Jul 2018)

Michael McDowell: The Minister resorts to a facile and ridiculous defence of this proposition. He ascribes to me and Senator Marie-Louise O'Donnell the sentiment that we are saying that a judge must be a chair. We have never said anything of the sort. If the Minister, who is a skilled lawyer and advocate, thinks he can get away with saying that we believe the sky will fall unless these bodies are chaired by...

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (10 Jul 2018)

Michael McDowell: If we put into legislation that the chair must be a layperson and then go on to say that, in the absence of that lay chairperson, the group which meets in the absence of that person cannot select from among their number the person they think is best qualified to chair their meeting and must exclude anybody with any legal knowledge, whether as a judge or legal professional, that will be a...

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (10 Jul 2018)

Michael McDowell: I bring the Minister back to section 15(5) which states: "The quorum for a meeting of the Commission shall, unless the Minister otherwise directs, be 9 members, 5 of whom shall be lay members." Why should a meeting with 12 people in attendance cease to be capable of discharging its function because only four lay members turn up on a particular day?

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (10 Jul 2018)

Michael McDowell: Why should that happen? It is wrong that it should happen. If we were saying that lay people should be prohibited from turning up, that would be one thing but if, for whatever accidental reason or series of reasons, five people who are lay members cannot make a meeting, and that is five out of eight-----

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (10 Jul 2018)

Michael McDowell: Excuse me. We will go back to this again.

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (10 Jul 2018)

Michael McDowell: No. I ask the Minister to listen to me. There are eight lay members on this commission, as I see it-----

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (10 Jul 2018)

Michael McDowell: There are nine lay members and if, for whatever reason, only four of them can turn up, the Minister is saying the meeting is invalid. I am saying that is utterly unreasonable because at that stage-----

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