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Seanad: Finance Bill 2005 [Certified Money Bill]: Committee and Remaining Stages. (23 Mar 2005)

Martin Mansergh: In answer to Senator John Paul Phelan's question about gamekeepers and poachers, if one is a very right-wing person, then somebody who goes from private enterprise to being a Minister responsible for taxes, is a gamekeeper who is turned poacher whereas if one is a very left-wing person it is the other way around.

Seanad: Finance Bill 2005 [Certified Money Bill]: Committee and Remaining Stages. (23 Mar 2005)

Martin Mansergh: I wanted to pick up a small point. On the substance of the issue, it is not as simple as has been put forward. I am very conscious of this as out of the three proposed road routes for the N24 improvements, one would have crossed my land in Tipperary. I know the disruption and the pain that is caused. This is quite a general recommendation. It applies to the city as well as to the country...

Seanad: Finance Bill 2005 [Certified Money Bill]: Committee and Remaining Stages. (23 Mar 2005)

Martin Mansergh: Does Senator John Paul Phelan want a State that worships private property and compensation and gives people vast amounts of money? This is why public schemes——

Seanad: Finance Bill 2005 [Certified Money Bill]: Committee and Remaining Stages. (23 Mar 2005)

Martin Mansergh: This is why public infrastructure schemes that are for the public good such as roads, railways and Luas, cost so much. If one analyses them, an horrendous percentage of the cost comprises compensation, not construction. Part of the reason the cost of compensation is so high is that land values have escalated. We must be sensible about this and realise there is more than one side to the argument.

Seanad: Finance Bill 2005 [Certified Money Bill]: Committee and Remaining Stages. (23 Mar 2005)

Martin Mansergh: It does not seem to have reached Mullingar.

Seanad: Finance Bill 2005 [Certified Money Bill]: Committee and Remaining Stages. (23 Mar 2005)

Martin Mansergh: It is generously worded.

Seanad: Finance Bill 2005 [Certified Money Bill]: Committee and Remaining Stages. (23 Mar 2005)

Martin Mansergh: The only case that can be made is one for strict roll-over relief in the case of those who seek to substitute viable land that has been compulsorily acquired. I cannot accept a looser formulation to the effect that the amount payable in tax could be put into one's business. However, there is a case in principle which I can support but it must be narrowly focussed and defined. There is no case...

Seanad: Finance Bill 2005 [Certified Money Bill]: Committee and Remaining Stages. (23 Mar 2005)

Martin Mansergh: Section 482.

Seanad: Finance Bill 2005 [Certified Money Bill]: Committee and Remaining Stages. (23 Mar 2005)

Martin Mansergh: I waited to hear the Minister of State's reply but could not find any change in the status quo when I examined the recommendation and the section as it stands. If there is a question of stealth, perhaps it is a stealth removal of tax rather than a stealth introduction of tax. I do not believe there is the slightest intention to introduce VAT on the foodstuffs mentioned by Senator Quinn....

Seanad: Finance Bill 2005 [Certified Money Bill]: Committee and Remaining Stages. (23 Mar 2005)

Martin Mansergh: This recommendation deals with an issue which is next in line to be addressed. It was correct to build up child benefit to a reasonable level in comparison with that in other countries because it was quite low until approximately ten years ago. It is widely accepted now that the child benefit approach will not deal with child care. The Government will not be in a position to accept the...

Seanad: Finance Bill 2005 [Certified Money Bill]: Committee and Remaining Stages. (23 Mar 2005)

Martin Mansergh: It was modified to take account of the interests of others but, nonetheless, the basic principle stands. That type of reinforced social trend must be taken into account. Addressing this issue should probably take precedence over general tax relief in the next budget. My party made proposals on this matter in its 1997 general election manifesto. We went into coalition and it was not part of...

Seanad: Finance Bill 2005 [Certified Money Bill]: Committee and Remaining Stages. (23 Mar 2005)

Martin Mansergh: Under the present system, there are some incentives for providing child care. However, I accept this is not the same as an obligation.

Seanad: Finance Bill 2005 [Certified Money Bill]: Committee and Remaining Stages. (23 Mar 2005)

Martin Mansergh: I accept the Minister of State's reply as a statement of what we have done and are doing. A substantial amount has been done in this area in terms of increasing supply and incentivising employers and I would not in any way be dismissive of the significant increase in child benefit which was greatly appreciated at the doorstep in 2002, as were pension provisions.

Seanad: Finance Bill 2005 [Certified Money Bill]: Committee and Remaining Stages. (23 Mar 2005)

Martin Mansergh: The Minister of State's answer will not be sufficient this time next year. We must take a fundamental look at the issue. His point is perfectly valid in that if one does not have a taxable income one cannot benefit from tax credits. Across the water, Gordon Brown's budget has a two-tier system. One tier deals with the problems of people effectively below the threshold — those assisted by...

Seanad: Finance Bill 2005 [Certified Money Bill]: Committee and Remaining Stages. (23 Mar 2005)

Martin Mansergh: I have a certain interest in this section as a cousin of mine has a section 482 property. Several years ago the Revenue Commissioners published, as an aid to transparency, an illustrated booklet of houses and gardens benefiting from section 482 relief. Has this booklet been updated? It was a good booklet and should go through periodic editions as properties are added or deleted from the scheme.

Seanad: Finance Bill 2005 [Certified Money Bill]: Committee and Remaining Stages. (23 Mar 2005)

Martin Mansergh: We all welcome the provision of information about the cost of tax reliefs and their benefits. Some progress has already been made. A review of tax reliefs is currently taking place and I am sure detailed information will be provided. The five-year limit set out in the recommendation would put tax reliefs onto a very Procrustean bed. There are so many types of reliefs——

Seanad: Finance Bill 2005 [Certified Money Bill]: Committee and Remaining Stages. (23 Mar 2005)

Martin Mansergh: It is a reference from Greek mythology. Procrustes was a giant of ancient legend who kept an inn. If guests were too tall for the beds in the inn, parts of their anatomy would be chopped off. If guests were too short for the beds, they were stretched to the full length of the beds.

Seanad: Finance Bill 2005 [Certified Money Bill]: Committee and Remaining Stages. (23 Mar 2005)

Martin Mansergh: A Procrustean bed means a very inflexible arrangement. People need to be able to plan into the future regarding tax. Some tax reliefs are introduced for a specified period of time, for example, two, three or four years. Sometimes, these reliefs are extended for a further period. Other reliefs are clearly intended to be permanent or semi-permanent features of the tax system. It may not be in...

Seanad: Finance Bill 2005 [Certified Money Bill]: Committee and Remaining Stages. (23 Mar 2005)

Martin Mansergh: I believe we are discussing recommendations rather than amendments.

Seanad: Finance Bill 2005 [Certified Money Bill]: Committee and Remaining Stages. (23 Mar 2005)

Martin Mansergh: I believe the tax strategy group came into being at the time of the rainbow Government but when one examines the group's past papers one would find studies on individual reliefs from time to time when change was felt to be desirable. It would be wrong to give the impression that these issues have not been closely monitored in previous years.

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