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Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (7 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: On section 27, can I just clarify an issue relating to this tie-up scheme? Is this just regarding payments that are made in relation to the tie-up scheme? Is it the case that this is allowing for them to be tax exempt? Can the Minister explain that part of it to the committee?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (7 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: Section 28 is a welcome provision in relation to microgeneration and doubling its exemption from €200 to €400. Can the Minister give us a cost in relation to that measure? What are we expecting that to cost us? I am looking at what is happening out there in terms of this. I presume it is small.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (7 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: In relation to section 29, which again I support, this is just an extension until 2025. I presume it will be extended for many years to come. From a policy point of view, has the Minister considered looking at the accelerated allowances for other types of capital investment, particularly in relation to modern methods of construction, MMC, in housing to try to give that the boost it needs?...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (7 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: Is there a scheduled break due after section 31?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (7 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: This is quite technical and relates to EU state aid and the general bloc exemption regulation. Will the Minister walk us through the practicalities of what is going to happen here in terms of the changes that are taking place as a result of this section?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (7 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: That is indefinite, is it not? Is it not a grandfathering issue?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (7 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: This section is in order. Farm representative organisations, including the IFA, had raised some concerns at an earlier stage that this needs to be restrictive in such a way that it does not impact inheritance or transfers of land from one generation to another. The Minister's comments make it clear that this is not the case and that it is dealt with in this legislation. The representative...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (7 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: I welcome the provision and the clarification. Obviously, this practice has had an impact on farmers in pushing up land prices for genuine active farmers. It is welcome that this will come to an end on 1 January 2024. Is that correct?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (7 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: I appreciate that.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (7 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: On the substantive section, this is quite a major change and one we have campaigned for as regards the research and development tax credit being increased to 30%. As to how this should apply, we have argued that it should apply to SMEs. This will apply right across the board for all companies. Like our earlier discussion about pensions, there has been genuine consideration of concentration...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (7 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: There are two parts to this. I want to focus on this part, relating to the payable credits. Some questions have been asked by Deputy Boyd Barrett about the cost of this. I was waiting for the Minister to respond.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (7 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: I support the research and development tax credit. I do not agree with Deputy Boyd Barrett's comment that is an either-or scenario. The reality is that Ireland is way below par in investment in research and development. The fact we provide research and development support to companies should not be a reason not to invest in our universities, because I think the point being made is a very...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (7 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: Will the Minister repeat the last part of that again, if he would not mind?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (7 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: I am a wee bit confused with these numbers. I understand the numbers behind keeping the value of the tax credit at the value. If a company got €1 million of tax credit for €4 million of investment last year and if it does the same investment next year, it will still get the €1 million. If we did not do what we are doing here, it would only get €875,000 because...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (7 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: I would appreciate that. One would imagine that all of the companies with fewer than 250 employees were outside the scope. In that case, we are talking about €200 million under the research and development tax credit. If a 25% tax credit rate cost €200 million, I would have expected an increase to 30% to cost more than €13 million. I want to ensure that every company...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (7 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: I would appreciate that. My final point is that this shows that the research and development tax credit is seriously concentrated, more so than I imagine anyone on this committee expected. If the Minister is telling us that-----

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (7 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: Well, we have never had these figures before and, in fairness, Deputy Boyd Barrett has just been given figures for companies with more than 250 employees. Where the companies that are out of scope are concerned, if a 5% increase equates to €13 million, it means they are getting €65 million currently and all of the other tax credit, amounting to nearly €700 million, is...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (7 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: I will speak to the second part, which I did not speak to. While I support this section, the presentation of the costs is not true. This is a reduction for companies in tax liability that would otherwise be coming to us. It is €137 million. If we did not make this change in this section, the Exchequer would be €137 million better off. That is the cost of this section, and...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (7 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: I move amendment No. 20: In page 53, between lines 28 and 29, to insert the following: “Report on establishment of Wealth Tax Commission 37. The Minister shall, within six months of the passing of this Act, prepare and lay before Dáil Éireann a report on the establishment of a Wealth Tax Commission to independently consider, having regard to the current taxation of...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (7 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: I will move the amendment on their behalf.

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