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Public Accounts Committee: 2022 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 - Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Defence
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 12: Stock Management in the Defence Forces
(23 May 2024)

Verona Murphy: The Naval Service is a part of our Defence Forces, so I include the Naval Service in that. Did the 8,000 applicants relate to one particular cohort?

Public Accounts Committee: 2022 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 - Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Defence
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 12: Stock Management in the Defence Forces
(23 May 2024)

Verona Murphy: Why, then, would Ms McCrum try to make a distinction? It is 400 overall. What are the overall figures that left-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2022 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 - Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Defence
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 12: Stock Management in the Defence Forces
(23 May 2024)

Verona Murphy: I do not have much time-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2022 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 - Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Defence
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 12: Stock Management in the Defence Forces
(23 May 2024)

Verona Murphy: How many people left the Defence Forces in the same period in which 400 were recruited?

Public Accounts Committee: 2022 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 - Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Defence
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 12: Stock Management in the Defence Forces
(23 May 2024)

Verona Murphy: I would call that haemorrhaging staff.

Public Accounts Committee: 2022 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 - Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Defence
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 12: Stock Management in the Defence Forces
(23 May 2024)

Verona Murphy: We have nearly 50% more leaving than we are recruiting-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2022 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 - Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Defence
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 12: Stock Management in the Defence Forces
(23 May 2024)

Verona Murphy: Where would Ms McCrum see that going?

Public Accounts Committee: 2022 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 - Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Defence
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 12: Stock Management in the Defence Forces
(23 May 2024)

Verona Murphy: Excuse me, Ms McCrum-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2022 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 - Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Defence
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 12: Stock Management in the Defence Forces
(23 May 2024)

Verona Murphy: When did the Department put in the retention measures?

Public Accounts Committee: 2022 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 - Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Defence
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 12: Stock Management in the Defence Forces
(23 May 2024)

Verona Murphy: They have just gone in.

Public Accounts Committee: 2022 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 - Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Defence
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 12: Stock Management in the Defence Forces
(23 May 2024)

Verona Murphy: They are very slow positive moves, however. How many do we have to lose before we are able to make decisions to retain as opposed to recruit?

Public Accounts Committee: 2022 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 - Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Defence
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 12: Stock Management in the Defence Forces
(23 May 2024)

Verona Murphy: Very slowly. Nobody could deny that. Next year-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2022 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 - Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Defence
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 12: Stock Management in the Defence Forces
(23 May 2024)

Verona Murphy: Moving on to the LÉ Eithne, the report states it would cost somewhere in the region of €300 million to replace it. Is there an intention to replace the LÉ Eithne?

Public Accounts Committee: 2022 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 - Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Defence
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 12: Stock Management in the Defence Forces
(23 May 2024)

Verona Murphy: How many of the six vessels it has is the Naval Service able to man at the moment?

Public Accounts Committee: 2022 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 - Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Defence
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 12: Stock Management in the Defence Forces
(23 May 2024)

Verona Murphy: Where is the one on standby?

Public Accounts Committee: 2022 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 - Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Defence
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 12: Stock Management in the Defence Forces
(23 May 2024)

Verona Murphy: Is Ms McCrum saying we could soon have onstream five vessels manned with personnel?

Public Accounts Committee: 2022 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 - Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Defence
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 12: Stock Management in the Defence Forces
(23 May 2024)

Verona Murphy: What is the problem such that we do not have it now? What is the issue?

Public Accounts Committee: 2022 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 - Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Defence
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 12: Stock Management in the Defence Forces
(23 May 2024)

Verona Murphy: With the figures Ms McCrum has just given me, if 750 staff have left and only 400 have been recruited, it is highly unlikely that is going to happen soon.

Public Accounts Committee: 2022 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 - Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Defence
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 12: Stock Management in the Defence Forces
(23 May 2024)

Verona Murphy: I do not know that, as a country, we can work our Defence Forces off speculation. It is the one issue on which I would hope we would have certainty, particularly given what the Department is tasked with. If it is speculative, can Ms McCrum tell me what figures we require and what figures we have currently? We will probably be able to make up our minds as to whether we will have €250...

Public Accounts Committee: 2022 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 - Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Defence
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 12: Stock Management in the Defence Forces
(23 May 2024)

Verona Murphy: We are short of 300 personnel, therefore.

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