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Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 19 - Exchequer receipts from National Lottery ticket sales
(8 Dec 2022)

Jennifer Carroll MacNeill: I welcome Mr. Algeo and Mr. Murphy and I thank them for coming in. At the outset, I got a marketing call a few months ago in relation to the national lottery. It was not anything to do with PLI, was it?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 19 - Exchequer receipts from National Lottery ticket sales
(8 Dec 2022)

Jennifer Carroll MacNeill: I might just help Mr. Algeo. It was me and, I think, the Chair-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 19 - Exchequer receipts from National Lottery ticket sales
(8 Dec 2022)

Jennifer Carroll MacNeill: Three members of the committee were contacted.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 19 - Exchequer receipts from National Lottery ticket sales
(8 Dec 2022)

Jennifer Carroll MacNeill: It was longer; it was perhaps two months ago. It was certainly this term in the period around the publication of the report.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 19 - Exchequer receipts from National Lottery ticket sales
(8 Dec 2022)

Jennifer Carroll MacNeill: I am sorry to cut across Mr. Algeo-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 19 - Exchequer receipts from National Lottery ticket sales
(8 Dec 2022)

Jennifer Carroll MacNeill: I do not mean to be impolite. Our time is so tight. From our perspective, the report was issued and three members of the Committee of Public Accounts were contacted. We raised it with the regulator two weeks ago, so I think Mr. Algeo has been on notice that we will ask the question and are curious about the source of it. We have other things to discuss, but it was a source of concern to...

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 19 - Exchequer receipts from National Lottery ticket sales
(8 Dec 2022)

Jennifer Carroll MacNeill: Since this came up at the Committee of Public Accounts two weeks, has Mr. Algeo checked with his market research company to see if it did that?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 19 - Exchequer receipts from National Lottery ticket sales
(8 Dec 2022)

Jennifer Carroll MacNeill: The purpose of this report is to increase transparency and Mr. Algeo is here so we can get his view on that on foot of the Comptroller and Auditor General’s report. The 98%-2% advertising top-up is a source of real concern to us for a couple of reasons. It piques our interest very much and is of real concern. First, I think it is fair to say the committee feels there is a sharpness...

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 19 - Exchequer receipts from National Lottery ticket sales
(8 Dec 2022)

Jennifer Carroll MacNeill: So essentially that was the best commercial decision PLI could make, having regard to all of the different things it does.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 19 - Exchequer receipts from National Lottery ticket sales
(8 Dec 2022)

Jennifer Carroll MacNeill: That is why the rest of the advertising becomes so interesting to us. We wonder why PLI needs to rely on that unclaimed prize money to the extent it has been. How does that relate to the rest of its advertising spend? We see very considerable advertising. There is the marketing information. I might just check the Comptroller and Auditor General. It is not apparent to us from the...

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 19 - Exchequer receipts from National Lottery ticket sales
(8 Dec 2022)

Jennifer Carroll MacNeill: Advertising in respect of gambling is of considerable interest to the Oireachtas at the moment because of the gambling legislation before the Houses, which will be familiar to the witnesses. Indeed, I have to take this opportunity to correct the record. I received correspondence from PLI this morning. I had been speaking to the Gambling Regulation Bill on Second Stage in the Dáil on...

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 19 - Exchequer receipts from National Lottery ticket sales
(8 Dec 2022)

Jennifer Carroll MacNeill: That is fair enough. It is up to us as legislators, therefore, to ensure that will change, given I have a concern about the scale of advertising and gambling. Representatives of the gambling industry appeared before us in the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Justice to discuss a range of these points, which are by no means exclusive to the national lottery. We need to know what the spend is,...

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 19 - Exchequer receipts from National Lottery ticket sales
(8 Dec 2022)

Jennifer Carroll MacNeill: I know that Mr. Algeo could not provide a cost to Deputy Verona Murphy regarding the spend on player welfare, but how many people are dedicated exclusively to that? I appreciate that many people contribute in lots of different ways, but is anyone dedicated exclusively to it?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 19 - Exchequer receipts from National Lottery ticket sales
(8 Dec 2022)

Jennifer Carroll MacNeill: I might give an example. When other parts of the gambling industry were being represented before the justice committee, we asked the same questions of the representatives of Flutter and they were able to tell us the figures. While they used United Kingdom figures, they subsequently provided to the justice committee a subset of them that were dedicated to player welfare concerns within...

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 19 - Exchequer receipts from National Lottery ticket sales
(8 Dec 2022)

Jennifer Carroll MacNeill: Is it a regulatory person who does that?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 19 - Exchequer receipts from National Lottery ticket sales
(8 Dec 2022)

Jennifer Carroll MacNeill: On the player welfare side, I think 48 people were contacted subsequent to their self-exclusion. Are people within the national lottery to dedicated helping or managing that? I appreciate Mr. Algeo does not want to trigger them in any way, as the regulator contact said, but who is dedicated to the follow-up of finding the system error, fixing it and making contact with gambling support...

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 19 - Exchequer receipts from National Lottery ticket sales
(8 Dec 2022)

Jennifer Carroll MacNeill: I appreciate Mr. Algeo cannot talk about communications with the regulator but has PLI had to invoke that process within its organisation in, say, 2022?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 19 - Exchequer receipts from National Lottery ticket sales
(8 Dec 2022)

Jennifer Carroll MacNeill: PLI has notified the regulator, therefore.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 19 - Exchequer receipts from National Lottery ticket sales
(8 Dec 2022)

Jennifer Carroll MacNeill: Nothing of the nature we were talking about, however, has been notified to the regulator in regard to self-exclusions.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 19 - Exchequer receipts from National Lottery ticket sales
(8 Dec 2022)

Jennifer Carroll MacNeill: I was referring to the notifications of issues about which PLI should notify the regulator. Of course, she has her own capacity to make assessments as well. Deputy Verona Murphy asked about the upper limit on a fine that might issue or about the withholding of funds that might be applied by the regulator. From a commercial perspective, what is the upper limit of the sum to be withheld that...

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