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Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (7 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: Good luck to you, a Leas-Chathaoirligh.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (7 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: This is very real for many people. We are sitting in here and I know we will have a bit of good craic as we go through this, but there are 130,000 people who are locked out of this scheme by the Minister's proposal. There are 130,000 families who are not going to get mortgage interest relief, regardless of how much their mortgage went up in the past year. That is completely unfair. I hear...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (7 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: We did not.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (7 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: Can I ask one further question while the Minister is still here?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (7 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: I appreciate that. I found it interesting that the Green Party Deputy was talking about Sinn Féin blowing the budget as he is discussing a measure that would not exist if it were not for Sinn Féin. Let us make that clear. You always know you touched a nerve when they have to resort to that. I genuinely feel this is cruel. I appeal to the Minister to consider this between now...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (7 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: I move amendment No. 12: In page 23, between lines 8 and 9, to insert the following: “Report on Mortgage Interest Relief 14.The Minister shall, within one month of the passing of this Act, prepare and lay before Dáil Éireann a report on the introduction of temporary mortgage interest relief, available in respect of mortgages on principal private residences, applied at...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (7 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: I have a question on the grandfathering provision. Will the Minister explain the types of bodies that would not be eligible for this that are eligible at the minute? I understand that no body will lose its status because of the grandfathering provision. I am trying to figure out who will be impacted by this.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (7 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: That is appreciated. The issue is that they would not be able to avail of it in the future if they are newly established and applying for it. The grandfathering will only apply to existing organisations.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (7 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: Why would they not come under the definitions? Is it because the sport is not competitive or because they are clubs as opposed to-----

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (7 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: I thank the Minister for taking me through that.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (7 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: Section 17 relates to retirement annuity contracts, RACs. I have a specific question. No new contract can be approved after 1 January of next year. What happens to the existing RACs that have been approved? Can top-ups still be applied? Can they continue to make contributions and benefit from the existing criteria?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (7 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: Will the Minister outline the rationale behind this measure?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (7 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: Under this proposal the fund still vest at what age?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (7 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: Is it 75 or 70?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (7 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: When does the vesting happen in relation to this?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (7 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: There have been changes to this legislation which dealt with some aggressive tax planning that was taking place with these funds where individuals did not draw down from the fund and therefore what was in the fund was passed on to a relative after death. It was a very aggressive tax incentive and it was closed down by the former Minister Michael Noonan, if memory serves me right. The issue...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (7 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: No. Three things happened to create a disincentive to hold on to a PRSA until the age of 75. The first was a crystallisation event. The second was the imputing. The third was that the person was locked out. However, if the person is no longer locked out, is the Minister not taking away one of the big disadvantages from this type of tax planning? We need to bear in mind that many people...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (7 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: The whole point of the third element whereby the person was locked out was to try to get them to draw down from this vehicle earlier than the age of 75. That was the original intention. That was the third part of it.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (7 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: That is the whole point. People should draw this down before the age of 75. There are no restrictions on somebody drawing it down at the age of 74.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (7 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: Will the Minister facilitate discussion on this if needed on Report Stage because there will be no amendment coming forward?

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