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Public Accounts Committee: Children’s Health Ireland and National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Discussion (19 Oct 2023)

Catherine Murphy: That is how that is accounted for. It is really a simple table. Information on the nature of the claims would be quite useful, including whether they are to do with inflation or breakages. For example, hand basins were changed to metal basins or something at one point. I remember that was one of the issues that-----

Public Accounts Committee: Children’s Health Ireland and National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Discussion (19 Oct 2023)

Catherine Murphy: It was for infection-control reasons.

Public Accounts Committee: Children’s Health Ireland and National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Discussion (19 Oct 2023)

Catherine Murphy: A lot of that is avoided by nailing things down in advance of a contract.

Public Accounts Committee: Children’s Health Ireland and National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Discussion (19 Oct 2023)

Catherine Murphy: Therefore, there can be a change from ceramic to aluminium. I would have thought that something with the highest level of infection control could at least be specified. The highest level of infection control is surely something that should be specified by a quantity surveyor. That determines the product.

Public Accounts Committee: Children’s Health Ireland and National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Discussion (19 Oct 2023)

Catherine Murphy: Is Mr. Devine saying one can never actually nail down in advance the cost of building a hospital?

Public Accounts Committee: Children’s Health Ireland and National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Discussion (19 Oct 2023)

Catherine Murphy: It is very hard to know how you learn lessons if that kind of practice exists. I refer to lessons in terms of location. I completely understand this is not a function of the NPHDB, but we are going to be building a national maternity hospital when the census is telling us babies are not being born. It seems a lesson should be learned about location. One of the issues with this location...

Public Accounts Committee: Children’s Health Ireland and National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Discussion (19 Oct 2023)

Catherine Murphy: What was the maximum agreed price when the tender was signed?

Public Accounts Committee: Children’s Health Ireland and National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Discussion (19 Oct 2023)

Catherine Murphy: That did not transpire to be the-----

Public Accounts Committee: Children’s Health Ireland and National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Discussion (19 Oct 2023)

Catherine Murphy: I will come back to Mr. Devine on that. I have a question for CHI. Does Ms Hardiman expect it to stay within the €300 million budget or have inflation or other costs impacted that?

Public Accounts Committee: Children’s Health Ireland and National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Discussion (19 Oct 2023)

Catherine Murphy: Ms Hardiman is saying it will be brought to substantial completion and then there are a further six months. If this does not occur at the end of next year and continues to, for example, February 2025, it would then be September or October before the work is complete. Is it tenable to open a hospital at that time of year?

Public Accounts Committee: Children’s Health Ireland and National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Discussion (19 Oct 2023)

Catherine Murphy: Therefore, the time for substantial completion is critical to avoid being delayed by another year.

Public Accounts Committee: Children’s Health Ireland and National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Discussion (19 Oct 2023)

Catherine Murphy: Okay. I think those are all the questions I have.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (19 Oct 2023)

Catherine Murphy: Yes.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (19 Oct 2023)

Catherine Murphy: Agreed.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (19 Oct 2023)

Catherine Murphy: Going back to the meeting on 16 November, as regards those particular Votes, relating to the Minister, the retired allowances, government procurement, the Chief Information Officer and then the Appropriation Accounts, the national development plan aspect of the Department of Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform and slippage on that are within the Department's...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (19 Oct 2023)

Catherine Murphy: For example, the transport Vote will deal with transport.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (19 Oct 2023)

Catherine Murphy: As regards the public spending code, some of that came up this morning-----

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (19 Oct 2023)

Catherine Murphy: -----as regards, say, ceramic hand basins as opposed to stainless steel hand basins and-----

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (19 Oct 2023)

Catherine Murphy: That is fine. It is just that I would have thought that the public spending code is quite important for the Department of Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform. In fact, we are engrossed in something in my constituency involving the purchase of land around Castletown House. The public spending code comes into that and, obviously, it is there for very good...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (19 Oct 2023)

Catherine Murphy: Yes. If we are to make changes, recommendations that will come from this committee, it would be quite important from that point of view, even in reminding the Department, because there is no doubt with the children's hospital that the type of contract - I think this has been accepted - was a major contributor to the delays to and the cost of it.

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