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Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (18 Oct 2016)

Catherine Connolly: I accept that. Mr. Soffe is giving the exact same answer as Mr. Daly, and he is standing by that again today. The Comptroller and Auditor General said - in my opinion, gently - that NAMA should have done more and Mr. Soffe has again said "No" today. I will not waste any more time on the issue. Mr. Soffe has said "No". In my opinion, that is wrong. At the very least NAMA should have...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (18 Oct 2016)

Catherine Connolly: Good. That is great. There were three bidders and only one was interested. Is that correct?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (18 Oct 2016)

Catherine Connolly: I have no difficulty with any of that. We are talking about a process and the Comptroller and Auditor General has identified issues or concerns in respect of it. That is the position. There is nothing else. It would have been great if NAMA came back and dealt with those issues rather than going to the newspapers or preparing a ten-page opening statement containing pejorative comments. It...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (18 Oct 2016)

Catherine Connolly: Nine companies were never invited to bid. Initially, there were three bidders.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (18 Oct 2016)

Catherine Connolly: When the witnesses come to the Committee of Public Accounts and talk about nine bidders, if they are standing over the process about which the Comptroller and Auditor General has concerns, there is a duty on them to come back and say this is the process. They did not. Mr. Ellingham came in today and referred to nine bidders once again, as did the other NAMA witnesses.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (18 Oct 2016)

Catherine Connolly: Mr. Soffe can keep repeating that. I am highlighting what I have read. The Comptroller and Auditor and General had concerns about the process. The witnesses have not reassured me about those concerns. Let me deal with one or two other little matters. On disclosure, I understand from Mr. Rowntree last week that Mr. Cushnahan never left the room in any of the meetings that he attended....

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (18 Oct 2016)

Catherine Connolly: Okay, so that is Mr. Soffe's explanation. I understand that. He represented seven of the major debtors, six plus in partnership with someone else regarding the seventh. That represented 50% of the property or the loan portfolio. Is that not correct?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (18 Oct 2016)

Catherine Connolly: Yes, Mr. Soffe said that. Mr. Rowntree has a slightly different view. Actually, to be precise, he backs Mr. Soffe up on that but not in respect of another matter in Ulster to which I will return. Mr. Cushnahan was representing 50% of the loan debtors. Is that correct?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (18 Oct 2016)

Catherine Connolly: Is it the case that a conflict of interest was never declared?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (18 Oct 2016)

Catherine Connolly: Mr. Soffe has made that point clearly and he has stuck to that. With regard to the University of Ulster research, Mr. Rowntree was very clear that it was a high-level piece of research - that has been confirmed by the witnesses today - and there were many presentations. He said that was potentially confidential information that somebody could make use of. I am summarising what he said....

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (18 Oct 2016)

Catherine Connolly: I understand that. I have been involved with local authorities for 17 years.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (18 Oct 2016)

Catherine Connolly: I heard Mr. Soffe say that. I am asking him a question.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (18 Oct 2016)

Catherine Connolly: No, my question is whether Mr. Soffe disagrees with Mr. Rowntree.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (18 Oct 2016)

Catherine Connolly: Good, that is okay.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (18 Oct 2016)

Catherine Connolly: Regarding Lazard, which was appointed in January 2014 and which was given a verbal briefing on the sales process, is it correct that there was no written document?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (18 Oct 2016)

Catherine Connolly: NAMA did not give Lazard a written document. It was a verbal briefing. Okay. The Comptroller and Auditor General has raised concerns in terms of NAMA's reliance on the assurance from Lazard. Today, NAMA has relied on that again. Mr. Soffe in particular has come back and said that Lazard reassured NAMA that the process was-----

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (18 Oct 2016)

Catherine Connolly: Okay. NAMA never told Lazard that PIMCO had withdrawn in the circumstances in which it had withdrawn.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (18 Oct 2016)

Catherine Connolly: Well PIMCO certainly did not go away quietly because we are talking about it now in 2016. Let us deal with this issue for a moment. NAMA was relying on Lazard's assurance. The Comptroller and Auditor General said that the latter was a limited assurance in light of the information available to Lazard. Does Mr. Soffe have a difficulty with that?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (18 Oct 2016)

Catherine Connolly: Mr. Soffe is not listening to my question. The Comptroller and Auditor General has raised an issue regarding the nature of the assurance given by Lazard and he said that Lazard had only limited information. Does Mr. Soffe accept that concern?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (18 Oct 2016)

Catherine Connolly: How could one possibly rely on an assurance where one has given limited information and where one knows PIMCO has withdrawn? NAMA has come back and told us even today that it was reassured by that assurance. Are the witnesses-----

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