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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Disability Matters: Decongregation of Mental Health Settings: Mental Health Commission (8 Dec 2022)

Neasa Hourigan: They are about decongregated settings, which is what is happening at Owenacurra, so this is within the terms of reference. I do not want Mr. Farrelly to imply to the committee that it is not within the terms of reference because it absolutely is.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Disability Matters: Decongregation of Mental Health Settings: Mental Health Commission (8 Dec 2022)

Neasa Hourigan: I ask Mr. Farrelly to outline what the regulatory enforcement is.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Disability Matters: Decongregation of Mental Health Settings: Mental Health Commission (8 Dec 2022)

Neasa Hourigan: Mr. Farrelly cannot provide any evidence that there is any actual regulatory enforcement. I believe Mr. Kiernan when he says that is occurring but witnesses cannot come to a committee and say that with no evidence. They have to provide us with some evidence.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Disability Matters: Decongregation of Mental Health Settings: Mental Health Commission (8 Dec 2022)

Neasa Hourigan: I am at an Oireachtas committee that has a statutory footing and the witnesses have privilege when they attend. It is very serious and what is happening to those people is serious. Mr. Farrelly can be flippant if he wants but it is serious.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Disability Matters: Decongregation of Mental Health Settings: Mental Health Commission (8 Dec 2022)

Neasa Hourigan: My time is up. I will hand back to the Chair.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Disability Matters: Decongregation of Mental Health Settings: Mental Health Commission (8 Dec 2022)

Neasa Hourigan: Just to stay on that point, has the commission had any communications with the HSE on its use of the commission's report? The HSE has appeared before the Joint Committee on Health in statutory session - and it is now on the record of the Dáil - and has said that the reason for the closure is the commission's reports. Has the commission had any correspondence about the HSE's use of the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Disability Matters: Decongregation of Mental Health Settings: Mental Health Commission (8 Dec 2022)

Neasa Hourigan: The commission has never contacted the HSE about its use of the commission's reports. Is that correct?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Disability Matters: Decongregation of Mental Health Settings: Mental Health Commission (8 Dec 2022)

Neasa Hourigan: I presume that means that the commission has no concerns.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Disability Matters: Decongregation of Mental Health Settings: Mental Health Commission (8 Dec 2022)

Neasa Hourigan: I have a couple of other questions and I do not want to get into a big back and forth on this but that does seem a remarkable position for a body that is tasked with protecting people in this regard. I want clarity on the issue of enforcement. In his responses to other Deputies, Mr. Farrelly said "if we did do something in this area" and referred to "potential" regulatory enforcement...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Disability Matters: Decongregation of Mental Health Settings: Mental Health Commission (8 Dec 2022)

Neasa Hourigan: No, an enforcement is a legal process and there is a commencement date. If I run a restaurant and somebody enforces a health and safety regulation, I am notified. Is there a date about which the HSE has been notified? Is that in train or in place? Can the witnesses tell me that it is not potential but is in place?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Disability Matters: Decongregation of Mental Health Settings: Mental Health Commission (8 Dec 2022)

Neasa Hourigan: Has the commission notified the HSE that there is an action in place against it?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Disability Matters: Decongregation of Mental Health Settings: Mental Health Commission (8 Dec 2022)

Neasa Hourigan: How many enforcement actions is the commission undertaking in respect of congregated settings?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Disability Matters: Decongregation of Mental Health Settings: Mental Health Commission (8 Dec 2022)

Neasa Hourigan: Will Mr. Kiernan undertake to give a note to committee on that? I would like to know how many enforcement actions there are in Cork in particular, but also more generally. I seek information on how many live enforcement notices are in place.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Disability Matters: Decongregation of Mental Health Settings: Mental Health Commission (8 Dec 2022)

Neasa Hourigan: I want to return to Deputy Cairns's point on the consistency with reports. I do not want to harp on about the point about writing reports but not being responsible for what happens afterwards but I do want to examine the issues around consistency and the implications of report findings. The commission will be aware that the HSE has repeatedly made reference to concerns raised in the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Disability Matters: Decongregation of Mental Health Settings: Mental Health Commission (8 Dec 2022)

Neasa Hourigan: I am pointing out inconsistencies to Mr. Farrelly.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Disability Matters: Decongregation of Mental Health Settings: Mental Health Commission (8 Dec 2022)

Neasa Hourigan: Is Mr. Farrelly saying that I am incorrect?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Disability Matters: Decongregation of Mental Health Settings: Mental Health Commission (8 Dec 2022)

Neasa Hourigan: No, this is not commentary; this is counting. A room is one size and it is not another size. It is not interpretative; it is counting.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Disability Matters: Decongregation of Mental Health Settings: Mental Health Commission (8 Dec 2022)

Neasa Hourigan: How many other buildings, such as St. Stephen's Hospital, have the same room sizes that the commission described as being "unsatisfactory" in Owenacurra?

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