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Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (24 Oct 2019)

Seán Fleming: Yes. I ask Deputy MacSharry to be brief. I do not want to open up the debate because Deputy Kelly, who raised the issue in parliamentary questions, is not here yet.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (24 Oct 2019)

Seán Fleming: Yes.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (24 Oct 2019)

Seán Fleming: This arises from a series of parliamentary questions tabled by Deputy Kelly in the past couple of months and advice from the Office of the Ceann Comhairle and the Office of the Attorney General. Out of deference to the Deputy, we will hold discussion of this matter for another day. The content is shocking.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (24 Oct 2019)

Seán Fleming: We will note and publish it and discuss it at our next meeting.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (24 Oct 2019)

Seán Fleming: Yes, but it is individuals.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (24 Oct 2019)

Seán Fleming: That is a sole trader.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (24 Oct 2019)

Seán Fleming: If it is a payment made to a person, it is personal information, whereas a company or partnership is not covered.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (24 Oct 2019)

Seán Fleming: It is a joke. It is a disgrace if GDPR prevents taxpayers from knowing how their money is spent. We will come back to this matter.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (24 Oct 2019)

Seán Fleming: Exactly. The matter merits a serious discussion and we will hold it over until the next day. We will note and publish the document in the meantime. No. 2468 is correspondence from Mr. Denis Leamy, chief executive, Cork Education and Training Board, providing information requested by the committee on the number of contracts that were non-compliant with procurement guidelines in 2018.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (24 Oct 2019)

Seán Fleming: Yes. We will do work on non-procurement and the design of contracts. I acknowledge that the board has given a detailed breakdown of how the figure of €2 million was arrived at. That is a substantial amount and the biggest item is bus hire. A comprehensive breakdown has been provided. As with Tusla, I thank CETB for that. Having the information is the first step in correcting the...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (24 Oct 2019)

Seán Fleming: In fairness, I will answer that. I have studied the various correspondence. All the SBCI has stated in the past is the total number of employees in organisations that have benefited from SBCI loans. That is not an appropriate figure from our point of view.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (24 Oct 2019)

Seán Fleming: This was sold as the number of people whose jobs are supported by the SBCI. However, I will read out this sentence again; "we are unable to fulfil directly the committee's request for a breakdown of the number of jobs supported by the SBCI". The SBCI acknowledges that it cannot do it. If it cannot provide that information on a national basis, it is because it does not have it. We will not...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (24 Oct 2019)

Seán Fleming: We will ask the secretariat to provide that. We have noted and discussed the correspondence at length. We are vigilant in reviewing the information presented in annual reports and distinguishing the impression it gives from the reality. No. 2473 is correspondence from Ms Leonora Harty, assistant governor of the Higher Education Authority, HEA, providing information on international...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (24 Oct 2019)

Seán Fleming: We are moving from direct subvention from a Department which will no longer be there, to be replaced by the payment of rates on a national valuation basis by a commercial State organisation, namely, Irish Water. In the figures the Comptroller and Auditor General provided, has he included the funding figure from commercial State organisations such as, for example, the ESB and Irish Water...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (24 Oct 2019)

Seán Fleming: We will come back to it. In the meantime, global valuations for gas companies, EirGrid, the ESB and various telecommunications companies are done and divided proportionally among each local authority based on population. It depends on the services, of course and, for example, Bord Gáis Energy rates cannot be distributed to every local authority because not every local authority has...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (24 Oct 2019)

Seán Fleming: Deputies do not pay rates on constituency offices because there are Deputies who have their offices in this building. There is equal treatment for all Deputies in respect of where their staff operate. I will put that on the record just in case people think there is something going on. I can clarify all of those matters.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (24 Oct 2019)

Seán Fleming: Any information we can get on this matter would be useful. We will ask the Valuation Office to provide that information. We might then have to take the matter up with the Department.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (24 Oct 2019)

Seán Fleming: Grand.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (24 Oct 2019)

Seán Fleming: I will ask the secretariat to determine whether we should ask the Valuation Office to get permission or we should write directly. It has been suggested that we do it, but it was produced for the Valuation Office. I will let the secretariat work out who to contact in order to get permission to publish.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (24 Oct 2019)

Seán Fleming: Commercial semi-State organisations like the ESB and EirGrid pay rates. There is no loss of revenue-----

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