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Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (20 Oct 2016)

Catherine Connolly: It is just to consider it. It is difficult to consider it-----

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (20 Oct 2016)

Catherine Connolly: It is not in private or public but rather in this manner when we are going to discuss social welfare very soon. It is difficult to consider it now. I have just seen it for the first time.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (20 Oct 2016)

Catherine Connolly: It is just to think about it. Lazard has been quoted repeatedly at our meetings as backing up a certain viewpoint. I need to think about that. We have not used Lazard, but NAMA has repeatedly used it to say "This is what Lazard said".

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (20 Oct 2016)

Catherine Connolly: Will the Chairman clarify whether the Northern Ireland deputy First Minister, Mr. Martin McGuinness, will attend a meeting of the committee next Wednesday? I have that down in my diary.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Department of Social Protection
Chapter 9 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 10 - Roll-out of the Public Services Card
Social Insurance Fund 2015
(20 Oct 2016)

Catherine Connolly: I welcome the witnesses. I found the report at the end of 2015 very interesting. Social Justice Ireland has pointed out that, in 2014, in the absence of social welfare benefits half of the Irish population would have been living in poverty so the Department has a very onerous task on its hands in respect of equality. I agree with my colleague that the Department has a huge budget, at more...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Department of Social Protection
Chapter 9 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 10 - Roll-out of the Public Services Card
Social Insurance Fund 2015
(20 Oct 2016)

Catherine Connolly: They get what they are entitled to, yet we have to read these headlines. Obviously, departmental officials are not responsible for them but the reporters are basing them on what they heard from Revenue and the Department of Social Protection. Gardaí are on the streets of Galway stopping cars. The report says they are stopping 4X4s because of cheaters. That is an unhelpful message and...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Department of Social Protection
Chapter 9 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 10 - Roll-out of the Public Services Card
Social Insurance Fund 2015
(20 Oct 2016)

Catherine Connolly: I accept Ms O'Donoghue's response.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Department of Social Protection
Chapter 9 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 10 - Roll-out of the Public Services Card
Social Insurance Fund 2015
(20 Oct 2016)

Catherine Connolly: It was 2004.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Department of Social Protection
Chapter 9 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 10 - Roll-out of the Public Services Card
Social Insurance Fund 2015
(20 Oct 2016)

Catherine Connolly: That has been outlined clearly in Ms O'Donoghue's opening statement. It was highlighted that the Department did not have a business plan, did not assess the risk, and did not assess the competency of the contractor to roll this out. Why was the project not re-tendered when all these problems emerged? Was that ever considered?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Department of Social Protection
Chapter 9 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 10 - Roll-out of the Public Services Card
Social Insurance Fund 2015
(20 Oct 2016)

Catherine Connolly: Ms O'Donoghue is saying events overtook the project relating to the economy and pressures on the organisation.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Department of Social Protection
Chapter 9 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 10 - Roll-out of the Public Services Card
Social Insurance Fund 2015
(20 Oct 2016)

Catherine Connolly: The intention was to have the 3 million issued by the end of 2013. I acknowledge Ms O'Donoghue's reply, and the Comptroller and Auditor General's examination team has been fair in its analysis. Green lights have been given for certain aspects of this but two issues stand out: assessment of the organisational capacity to undertake the project and the benefits realisation plan. That was not...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Department of Social Protection
Chapter 9 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 10 - Roll-out of the Public Services Card
Social Insurance Fund 2015
(20 Oct 2016)

Catherine Connolly: What is the figure?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Department of Social Protection
Chapter 9 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 10 - Roll-out of the Public Services Card
Social Insurance Fund 2015
(20 Oct 2016)

Catherine Connolly: However, there was no analysis of what the Department was going to save having spent €60 million. The project is still unfinished. Is there any guarantee that 3 million cards will issue by the end of 2017, as anticipated by the Department?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Department of Social Protection
Chapter 9 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 10 - Roll-out of the Public Services Card
Social Insurance Fund 2015
(20 Oct 2016)

Catherine Connolly: We are beyond hope. What is planned? What is the Department's capacity to deliver?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Department of Social Protection
Chapter 9 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 10 - Roll-out of the Public Services Card
Social Insurance Fund 2015
(20 Oct 2016)

Catherine Connolly: We would expect a business plan and that the Department would lay out the anticipated savings, and that was not done. To finish with legislation, privacy and the Data Protection Commissioner, part of the plan was an activation of the card. Is that right? What did that cost?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Department of Social Protection
Chapter 9 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 10 - Roll-out of the Public Services Card
Social Insurance Fund 2015
(20 Oct 2016)

Catherine Connolly: I accept that, and I see it, but then it was stopped. Will Ms O'Donoghue clarify why it was stopped and the reason the Data Protection Commissioner no longer had any concerns?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Department of Social Protection
Chapter 9 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 10 - Roll-out of the Public Services Card
Social Insurance Fund 2015
(20 Oct 2016)

Catherine Connolly: When I get the card, I ring back, and the code is confirmation that I am the right person.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Department of Social Protection
Chapter 9 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 10 - Roll-out of the Public Services Card
Social Insurance Fund 2015
(20 Oct 2016)

Catherine Connolly: Is the Data Protection Commissioner satisfied with that?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Department of Social Protection
Chapter 9 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 10 - Roll-out of the Public Services Card
Social Insurance Fund 2015
(20 Oct 2016)

Catherine Connolly: The Department's justification for the activation scheme that cost €2.6 million was the Data Protection Commissioner's concerns.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Department of Social Protection
Chapter 9 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 10 - Roll-out of the Public Services Card
Social Insurance Fund 2015
(20 Oct 2016)

Catherine Connolly: Did he then come back and say the Department no longer needed to do that?

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