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Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (24 Oct 2019)

Seán Fleming: We will come to the document in question in our work programme. We will not meet next week.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (24 Oct 2019)

Seán Fleming: I agree and have read it. It is worth 20 minutes of discussion.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (24 Oct 2019)

Seán Fleming: We will hold it over. The document will hold and does not have to be dealt with today. We will deal with it at the next opportunity. No. 2456 is correspondence from Professor Willie Donnelly, president of Waterford Institute of Technology, WIT, dated 11 October, providing details requested by the committee in respect of an accumulated revenue deficit of €6.3 million in August...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (24 Oct 2019)

Seán Fleming: We will reply to the correspondence and, as Chairman of the Committee of Public Accounts, I will state I have viewed the chart and am bewildered by it. The institute does not explain the difference between the institute cumulative position figures and the consolidated cumulative figures, and it did not indicate whether the figures relate to thousands or millions of euro. The schedule is...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (24 Oct 2019)

Seán Fleming: We are guessing. It is wholly unsatisfactory.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (24 Oct 2019)

Seán Fleming: It is utterly unsatisfactory and we will state as much in our reply. I have never seen such an unsatisfactory set of figures produced at a meeting of the Committee of Public Accounts on such an important matter. If this is how WIT conducts its business at this level, it raises serious questions about its overall management and governance.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (24 Oct 2019)

Seán Fleming: Yes, absolutely. I am happy to do that.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (24 Oct 2019)

Seán Fleming: We are quite clear about our reaction. I will indicate we do not seek a response but instead reject the letter as utterly unsatisfactory, and that we want a proper response with proper explanations. We formally reject the letter. Does that satisfy the Deputy?

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (24 Oct 2019)

Seán Fleming: I propose we publish the correspondence to allow people to see what we mean. Is that agreed? Agreed. No. 2457 is correspondence from Mr. Bernard Gloster, chief executive of Tusla, providing an information note requested by the committee in respect of contracts that were non-compliant with procurement guidelines. People will have observed the committee in recent months being strong in...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (24 Oct 2019)

Seán Fleming: Tusla seems to indicate that because a large number of locations were involved, when it accumulated-----

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (24 Oct 2019)

Seán Fleming: It appears it has no real-time method of monitoring it.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (24 Oct 2019)

Seán Fleming: That is why we are dealing with it. The Deputy is right to highlight it. This is an issue we are going to have a look at.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (24 Oct 2019)

Seán Fleming: And the education and training boards, ETBs.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (24 Oct 2019)

Seán Fleming: The Deputy is correct and we have highlighted this. For the Tax Appeals Commission, the Department of Finance did not get the planning right for its establishment and underestimated the work. We have seen the same thing with Tusla; when it came out of the HSE, the relevant Department did not get a proper understanding of what was going to happen. We saw it with the ETBs. We have seen that...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (24 Oct 2019)

Seán Fleming: We will come to that. We have opened up the door on the non-procurement. The question is about the adequacy in the round of the guidelines they operate. We have all seen the national stationery list that is provided to every school in the country. If they want to buy a ruler or a pencil parer they have to operate from the list, although exceptions can be made. It might be...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (24 Oct 2019)

Seán Fleming: We are going to invite the Office of Government Procurement in for a special meeting on procurement and to address two issues. I am jumping on to the work programme. Week in and week out we are seeing reports audited by the Comptroller and Auditor General of non-compliance with Government procurement. In recent months - I want to check if it is since the start of this Dáil term and...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (24 Oct 2019)

Seán Fleming: We have to start with them.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (24 Oct 2019)

Seán Fleming: My apologies for cutting across the Deputy, but we might consider speaking to the small and medium-sized business organisations.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (24 Oct 2019)

Seán Fleming: We can put it on the work programme as to who we need to bring in and we can invite in that organisation, and probably some others, to give us a rounded view.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (24 Oct 2019)

Seán Fleming: We will not sign off on the specifics today but we can see the gist of where we are going.

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