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Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: That is fine.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: Section 48 relates to CGT relief on properties. Yesterday, we spoke about landlords leaving the market and the CSO suggesting there has been an increase in tenancies. As policy makers, we face a challenge in figuring out the accurate data. I know another committee is looking at this and the CSO is trying to do a matching purpose with the RTB. That will be helpful for all of us because we...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: I hear what the Minister is saying in terms of clarification. I will come back to the substance of the clarification that is in the legislation. The Minister said the relief is tapering off, which means that by 2021, the tax liability increases for landlords who do not dispose of their property. Every year they hold the property, the more capital gains tax they pay. This is a serious...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: I want to take issue with the last point. After the seven years they are not into the normal CGT situation, as I understand. There is a formula relating to the gains that have accrued. Say they are €200,000. It is minus those gains divided by seven eighths. Therefore seven eighths would apply if it was 2022, which is one year after the seven years. It will be seven ninths for...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: I hear what the Minister is saying but I am thinking of when the scheme came in. We are in a different place and I will not get into looking back. I did not like it in the first place but there was a rationale around trying to get activity into the property market and the whole idea was that people held for four to seven years. As time went on, the worst time to dispose of it was at that...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: I accept that Revenue has been applying the provisions the Minister has outlined in respect of how this is operating. I do make the point that we are changing the law. Intent is one thing and that is fine. The law does not say "purchased". There would be a risk here if this were legally challenged because we do not have the word "purchased" in it. I understand that is why the Minister is...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: I move amendment No. 25: In page 80, between lines 4 and 5, to insert the following: "Report on the application of stamp duty on the buy-back of shares 49.The Minister shall, within six months of the passing of this Act, prepare and lay before Dáil Éireann a report on the application of stamp duty on all purchases by companies of their own shares, and requiring companies to...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: The Minister's response is disappointing. Apart from the bit at the end, most of what he said is almost word for word what he or his predecessor have told me on previous occasions through parliamentary questions and other means. We understood the tax strategy group was looking at the issue in a preliminary way, with the Department looking at it in more depth. I accept there is an issue in...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: I withdraw my amendment.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: I move amendment No. 27: In page 80, to delete lines 31 to 38, and substitute the following: “ 11 October 2023 €606.39 €606.39 €526.83 €526.83 €526.83 €60.00 €164.23 €149.09 €142.76 €79.17 €9.36 1...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: If the committee might bear with me for a moment, I thought the Minister would speak for more than a minute.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: I hear what the Minister is saying. We have heard it before. We are in the middle of a cost-of-living crisis. Prices will continue to go up. I am sure the Minister is aware that the Government in Germany, a coalition which involves the Greens, paused its carbon tax increase last year in the context of the cost-of-living crisis. Their carbon tax is set at €30 per tonne while our is...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: I am not opposed to this section. It involves a significant increase, and a bigger one than we have seen in recent years. I am just conscious of something I see in the community all the time. I do not know what a packet of cigarettes costs now - about €17, I think, with this increase. We are talking about €170 for a carton of ten packets. The number of people who are coming...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: I just want to make one final point. I thank the Minister for the data. It would not be nice to see the trend with regard to where that is moving and how it is correlating, if it is at all, with price in the Irish retail market. However, at the end of the day, I know most people are still buying these products from behind the counter in Irish shops and if one, in particular, is trying to...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: Can I have some clarification as to how this will apply to cider and perry with a high percentage, or a percentage above 8.5%? What does this do to the typical product on the shelf? It obviously increases the excise but what does this do to the price of a litre of cider?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: All right.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: This refers to the deposit return scheme and the VAT applicable to this and how VAT would be applied to the operator with respect to the non-refunded deposits or return deposits. Can the Minister talk us through it, or does he have the information with regard to the implementation of this scheme as to how it will operate in practice for retailers? Is that something the Minister has? I am...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: I thank the Minister for that. Going through the practicalities of this, an operator is established, and an operator is different from a retailer who will operate the scheme. An operator will provide services at different retail outlets, I assume. Correct me if I have misunderstood this. Let us say €5 million in deposits was paid for aluminium cans or plastic drink containers and...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: The retailer also benefits from a fee, do they not? No.

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