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Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 78 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Matters Arising out of Education Audits (27 Sep 2012)

Paschal Donohoe: Above that tier.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 78 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Matters Arising out of Education Audits (27 Sep 2012)

Paschal Donohoe: Dr. Brady is contending that the difficulty does not arise with average wage levels but with the ability to be flexible at individual level.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 78 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Matters Arising out of Education Audits (27 Sep 2012)

Paschal Donohoe: I note Dr. Prendergast was nodding when Dr. Brady was making that point.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 78 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Matters Arising out of Education Audits (27 Sep 2012)

Paschal Donohoe: Deputy John Deasy has taken the words out of my mouth.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 78 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Matters Arising out of Education Audits (27 Sep 2012)

Paschal Donohoe: I was speaking about the difference between average levels of pay and the ability to deliver individual contracts to people identified to step up to the next level or who should be retained. Is that an issue that also confronts Dr. Prendergast?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 78 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Matters Arising out of Education Audits (27 Sep 2012)

Paschal Donohoe: Dr. Prendergast has made the argument for more flexibility in making choices in respect of the total amount allocated, as this would allow him to make different choices in retaining people and encouraging others to come to Ireland.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 78 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Matters Arising out of Education Audits (27 Sep 2012)

Paschal Donohoe: I wish to raise one other issue, that of discretionary pension awards. In chapter 5 of the university report the issue of pension top-ups attracted media attention. There was evidence that some of the universities were topping up the pensions of staff as they decided to leave. The Department has indicated that work is under way in each university to identify all sets of circumstances where...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 78 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Matters Arising out of Education Audits (27 Sep 2012)

Paschal Donohoe: That is still happening as people look to retire?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 78 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Matters Arising out of Education Audits (27 Sep 2012)

Paschal Donohoe: I will conclude, Chairman, but, first, I request an update on pension entitlements from the position which obtained when the report was published in 2010. I would like to know how the scheme is operating now, given that the Department of Finance has joint responsibility for it. There are examples given in the report that show that in one university nine staff had retired in 2008, with the...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 78 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Matters Arising out of Education Audits (27 Sep 2012)

Paschal Donohoe: Has there been any change in the nature of the governing body or its composition since these revelations?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 78 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Matters Arising out of Education Audits (27 Sep 2012)

Paschal Donohoe: What about within the senior management team?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 78 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Matters Arising out of Education Audits (27 Sep 2012)

Paschal Donohoe: How do you respond to the point Deputy McGuinness made that a number of other entities and individuals were aware of what was going on? Across a ten year period, no one ever said "Stop".

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 78 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Matters Arising out of Education Audits (27 Sep 2012)

Paschal Donohoe: Sorry; I want to withdraw that statement, because Mr. McFeely did, and I should have acknowledged that in what I said. Why were there not more people like Mr. McFeely? I am glad I was pulled up on that because I want to apologise to Mr. McFeely for the statement I made because he clearly did. My question is why was he on his own.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 78 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Matters Arising out of Education Audits (27 Sep 2012)

Paschal Donohoe: When will we know? How will we know?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 78 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Matters Arising out of Education Audits (27 Sep 2012)

Paschal Donohoe: I will leave it at that. You have come into a new role and are having to deal with these issues. We will look to him to see a resolution of this. I also acknowledge Mr. McFeely's role in this but I reiterate the point made by colleagues. I am concerned about the performance of the individual who instigated the behaviour that is of concern and equally why, with the exception of Mr. McFeely...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 78 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Matters Arising out of Education Audits (27 Sep 2012)

Paschal Donohoe: Professor MacCraith gave me a sense of what is happening within DCU on that point.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 78 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Matters Arising out of Education Audits (27 Sep 2012)

Paschal Donohoe: I would like to go on to another observation made in the report, on page 43, on the measuring of staff time as part of a revised costing model. The point the report made was that a new system was brought in to better allocate funding from the Exchequer to universities. It wanted to come up with a way to understand the use of staff time and the resulting outputs. One of the observations in...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 78 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Matters Arising out of Education Audits (27 Sep 2012)

Paschal Donohoe: I want to go back to that point to allow Dr. Brady to elaborate, because it is an important one on which to be clear from the point of view of people looking at this. There is a difference between having an amount of money in a bank account which is uncommitted, in particular an amount of money which is so large, and an amount of money of which use will be made in the short term to fund the...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 78 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Matters Arising out of Education Audits (27 Sep 2012)

Paschal Donohoe: It is important to be clear about it. The amount of money we are talking about here is not surplus money.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 78 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Matters Arising out of Education Audits (27 Sep 2012)

Paschal Donohoe: This is money that comes in in a variety of different ways and different commitments exist on which that money must be spent. That is correct.

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