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Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Accounts of the Public Services
Chapter 9 - Greenhouse Gas-Related Financial Transactions: Discussion
(5 Nov 2019)

Seán Fleming: Mr. Brady is saying we are spending more on subsidies that have a negative impact on the environment in terms of climate change. That seems to be what he is saying.

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Accounts of the Public Services
Chapter 9 - Greenhouse Gas-Related Financial Transactions: Discussion
(5 Nov 2019)

Seán Fleming: One of the reasons we are here is to put this issue into the public domain. I do not know who is watching the meeting at this hour of the evening, but they might pick up on it. When I saw the CSO's figure, I was taken aback, but when I looked at it, I understood it. We are collecting all of this revenue from the carbon tax and there is little transparency as to how the extra amount...

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Accounts of the Public Services
Chapter 9 - Greenhouse Gas-Related Financial Transactions: Discussion
(5 Nov 2019)

Seán Fleming: In Table 1 included in the CSO's submission there is a sum of €4.1 billion. Are items such as the fuel allowance outside that figure?

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Accounts of the Public Services
Chapter 9 - Greenhouse Gas-Related Financial Transactions: Discussion
(5 Nov 2019)

Seán Fleming: They are included in the direct subsidies that are potentially damaging to the environment that the CSO has included in its detailed table, for which the figure comes to €1.8 billion. Then there are the indirect subsidies that are potentially damaging to the environment, for which the figure comes to €2.3 billion. In the last chapter it is stated fossil fuel subsidies are...

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Accounts of the Public Services
Chapter 9 - Greenhouse Gas-Related Financial Transactions: Discussion
(5 Nov 2019)

Seán Fleming: I do not have a figure for what the increase in the budget is expected to be next year. Is it €100 million? I am not sure what the figure is. If the figure for income forgone is €4.1 billion per annum for subsidies that are damaging to the environment, the little extra collected is trivial. It only amounts to crumbs relative to the big picture, hence the earlier comments...

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Accounts of the Public Services
Chapter 9 - Greenhouse Gas-Related Financial Transactions: Discussion
(5 Nov 2019)

Seán Fleming: It is good that we have the figures in front of us. We could not have this debate if we did not have the reports. We are here to debate the issue in the cold light of day.

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Accounts of the Public Services
Chapter 9 - Greenhouse Gas-Related Financial Transactions: Discussion
(5 Nov 2019)

Seán Fleming: Upwards or downwards.

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Accounts of the Public Services
Chapter 9 - Greenhouse Gas-Related Financial Transactions: Discussion
(5 Nov 2019)

Seán Fleming: As of now, it is a standard. For how long has that approximate standard been in place? I am looking at figures for the period from 2012 to 2016. It has been generally-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Accounts of the Public Services
Chapter 9 - Greenhouse Gas-Related Financial Transactions: Discussion
(5 Nov 2019)

Seán Fleming: Is that imminent as in next year or the following year?

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Accounts of the Public Services
Chapter 9 - Greenhouse Gas-Related Financial Transactions: Discussion
(5 Nov 2019)

Seán Fleming: How much extra revenue would it yield based on what has been collected?

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Accounts of the Public Services
Chapter 9 - Greenhouse Gas-Related Financial Transactions: Discussion
(5 Nov 2019)

Seán Fleming: Revenue officials will be before the committee. It is a Revenue figure and we can ask it about it. At this stage we just want to have some of these figures put into the public domain as carbon tax is an issue. When people heard the debate in recent weeks on increasing carbon tax, I think they forgot the fact that we had been collecting over €400 million each year since 2010. That...

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Accounts of the Public Services
Chapter 9 - Greenhouse Gas-Related Financial Transactions: Discussion
(5 Nov 2019)

Seán Fleming: Lastly, are there industries that are less harmful to the environment through producing CO2 emissions than others? Did I read that tourism was good because it provided accommodation? Is there any employment information on all of the industries? If Ireland was a greater tourism destination, would that be another way of reducing our CO2 emissions over a period of time, not just in taxation...

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Accounts of the Public Services
Chapter 9 - Greenhouse Gas-Related Financial Transactions: Discussion
(5 Nov 2019)

Seán Fleming: Representatives of the Department will come before the committee. The witnesses who are before us this evening have produced statistics.

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Accounts of the Public Services
Chapter 9 - Greenhouse Gas-Related Financial Transactions: Discussion
(5 Nov 2019)

Seán Fleming: The next time we have a meeting on this topic, it will be possible to put most of these questions to officials from the Department.

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Accounts of the Public Services
Chapter 9 - Greenhouse Gas-Related Financial Transactions: Discussion
(5 Nov 2019)

Seán Fleming: I would like to ask about words that come up in the public mind. Gas is deemed to be a transition fuel. Who came up with that definition? It comes from carbon, just like everything else. Is it a matter of convenience?

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Accounts of the Public Services
Chapter 9 - Greenhouse Gas-Related Financial Transactions: Discussion
(5 Nov 2019)

Seán Fleming: Correct.

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Accounts of the Public Services
Chapter 9 - Greenhouse Gas-Related Financial Transactions: Discussion
(5 Nov 2019)

Seán Fleming: Has this been determined by the UN?

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Accounts of the Public Services
Chapter 9 - Greenhouse Gas-Related Financial Transactions: Discussion
(5 Nov 2019)

Seán Fleming: Yes.

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Accounts of the Public Services
Chapter 9 - Greenhouse Gas-Related Financial Transactions: Discussion
(5 Nov 2019)

Seán Fleming: Fair enough.

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Accounts of the Public Services
Chapter 9 - Greenhouse Gas-Related Financial Transactions: Discussion
(5 Nov 2019)

Seán Fleming: Is that a UN or EUROSTAT rule?

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