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Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive - Review of Allowances (8 Nov 2012)

Paschal Donohoe: Anyone currently doing the work that entitles them to receive that allowance will continue to receive it in the future.

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive - Review of Allowances (8 Nov 2012)

Paschal Donohoe: If somebody new comes to do that work, he or she will not receive the allowance.

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive - Review of Allowances (8 Nov 2012)

Paschal Donohoe: It has been abolished for new beneficiaries but current beneficiaries will keep it.

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive - Review of Allowances (8 Nov 2012)

Paschal Donohoe: I understand completely.

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive - Review of Allowances (8 Nov 2012)

Paschal Donohoe: That is fine. I just wanted to understand what was meant by new beneficiaries. I refer to some points raised by other members. Deputy O'Donnell asked a question about information technology that I would have asked. Mr. O'Brien said there are currently eight systems. What is the cost of moving from eight to one, of bringing in the single system which would be effective for tracking wages...

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive - Review of Allowances (8 Nov 2012)

Paschal Donohoe: Is it fair to say it will be a big cost?

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive - Review of Allowances (8 Nov 2012)

Paschal Donohoe: That work is under way.

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive - Review of Allowances (8 Nov 2012)

Paschal Donohoe: The clinical director allowance was examined earlier. Would a consultant who becomes a clinical director and receives that allowance, forego any of his or her consultant work? In other words, if they take on a management or leadership post, would they be unable to carry out any previous work?

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive - Review of Allowances (8 Nov 2012)

Paschal Donohoe: What is the situation with regard to negotiations on the new consultant's contract?

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive - Review of Allowances (8 Nov 2012)

Paschal Donohoe: What will be the HSE position if the representative bodies do not implement the recommendations of the Labour Court?

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive - Review of Allowances (8 Nov 2012)

Paschal Donohoe: I fully accept that. I am not doubting the information Mr. O'Brien has given me. I simply say that when the Garda Commissioner was here last week, I asked him if he included overtime as part of his definition of allowances. He said, "Yes". We have varying definitions of what an allowance is.

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive - Review of Allowances (8 Nov 2012)

Paschal Donohoe: I understand that point completely.

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive - Review of Allowances (8 Nov 2012)

Paschal Donohoe: I am not suggesting Mr. O'Brien is trying to mislead me. I am simply making the point that when we had, for example, the Irish Prison Service before the committee and talked about how it deals with people who have to work at the weekend, we were told it was done by means of allowances. The prison service defines that payment as an allowance. The HSE does not.

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive - Review of Allowances (8 Nov 2012)

Paschal Donohoe: Are Labour Court recommendations sector specific? When Mr. O'Brien speaks about Labour Court recommendations is he referring to a ruling that is specific to the health services?

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive - Review of Allowances (8 Nov 2012)

Paschal Donohoe: Let us look at the on-call payment. When the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform came before the committee, the Secretary General of the Department said someone had to be available at weekends to make sure the IT systems worked. He described the payment to such a person as an allowance. In the HSE that would not be called an allowance.

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive - Review of Allowances (8 Nov 2012)

Paschal Donohoe: Does Mr. O'Brien regard those payments as allowances? Are they part of the 2.61%?

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive - Review of Allowances (8 Nov 2012)

Paschal Donohoe: So, the cost of on-call is not part of the €166 million.

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive - Review of Allowances (8 Nov 2012)

Paschal Donohoe: I understand.

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive - Review of Allowances (8 Nov 2012)

Paschal Donohoe: I understand that, and I will not go on with this forever. However, the allowances percentage of total HSE wages is massively lower than equivalent figures elsewhere. That got me into working through how the HSE defines an allowance and what are the components of a HSE allowance. Following the hearings we have had so far, I observe that the HSE has a far narrower definition of what an...

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive - Review of Allowances (8 Nov 2012)

Paschal Donohoe: I understand that. I know that everything Mr. O'Brien is saying is true and makes sense within the health service as he is describing it. I am just teasing this out because he has a different definition of an allowance from the definition we heard in our other hearings. If we were to use the same definition of allowances for the HSE as has been used elsewhere the figure would be much...

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