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Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 4 - National Pensions Reserve Fund
Chapter 25 - Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency
National Treasury Management Agency - Financial Statements 2011
National Pensions Reserve Fund Commission - Financial Statements 2011
(22 Nov 2012)

Paschal Donohoe: I refer to the different components of an improvement in our bank debt. Mr. Corrigan clarified that an arrangement on the promissory notes might not, of itself, improve the debt-to-GDP ratio which is one of the key thresholds of debt sustainability for our country. However, an arrangement on the ownership and value of our stake in the pillar banks could make a difference to the debt-to-GDP...

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 4 - National Pensions Reserve Fund
Chapter 25 - Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency
National Treasury Management Agency - Financial Statements 2011
National Pensions Reserve Fund Commission - Financial Statements 2011
(22 Nov 2012)

Paschal Donohoe: Is it correct to say that what will impact our overall debt-to-GDP ratio is the potential valuation given to the share price of the banks in which the State has a stake if these were disposed of at some point in the future?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 4 - National Pensions Reserve Fund
Chapter 25 - Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency
National Treasury Management Agency - Financial Statements 2011
National Pensions Reserve Fund Commission - Financial Statements 2011
(22 Nov 2012)

Paschal Donohoe: Has the NTMA a yield figure in mind with regard to a sustainable return to the markets?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 4 - National Pensions Reserve Fund
Chapter 25 - Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency
National Treasury Management Agency - Financial Statements 2011
National Pensions Reserve Fund Commission - Financial Statements 2011
(22 Nov 2012)

Paschal Donohoe: I understand. Mr. Corrigan made a point earlier in the discussion that our current yields are an improvement in many ways on the yield figures for the period when Ireland was rated as triple A.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 4 - National Pensions Reserve Fund
Chapter 25 - Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency
National Treasury Management Agency - Financial Statements 2011
National Pensions Reserve Fund Commission - Financial Statements 2011
(22 Nov 2012)

Paschal Donohoe: The issue, then, is our relative performance in relation to Germany.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 4 - National Pensions Reserve Fund
Chapter 25 - Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency
National Treasury Management Agency - Financial Statements 2011
National Pensions Reserve Fund Commission - Financial Statements 2011
(22 Nov 2012)

Paschal Donohoe: In terms of the relative performance, is it correct that our notional bond yields with regard to the eight-year or ten-year debt are actually better than Spain's?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 4 - National Pensions Reserve Fund
Chapter 25 - Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency
National Treasury Management Agency - Financial Statements 2011
National Pensions Reserve Fund Commission - Financial Statements 2011
(22 Nov 2012)

Paschal Donohoe: However, Ireland is in a programme and Spain is not. It is striking that as a programme country, we have a bond yield that is more attractive than that of a larger economy that is not in a programme.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 4 - National Pensions Reserve Fund
Chapter 25 - Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency
National Treasury Management Agency - Financial Statements 2011
National Pensions Reserve Fund Commission - Financial Statements 2011
(22 Nov 2012)

Paschal Donohoe: As part of that journey, what importance will the markets attach to the forthcoming budget?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 4 - National Pensions Reserve Fund
Chapter 25 - Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency
National Treasury Management Agency - Financial Statements 2011
National Pensions Reserve Fund Commission - Financial Statements 2011
(22 Nov 2012)

Paschal Donohoe: This was an issue of the unit within the organisation, as opposed to individuals, making additional financial gain.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 4 - National Pensions Reserve Fund
Chapter 25 - Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency
National Treasury Management Agency - Financial Statements 2011
National Pensions Reserve Fund Commission - Financial Statements 2011
(22 Nov 2012)

Paschal Donohoe: Would the compensation of these individuals have been tied into the performance of their business unit?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 4 - National Pensions Reserve Fund
Chapter 25 - Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency
National Treasury Management Agency - Financial Statements 2011
National Pensions Reserve Fund Commission - Financial Statements 2011
(22 Nov 2012)

Paschal Donohoe: Mr. Corrigan has helped me understand that it is unlikely that this money ended up in someone's personal bank account. It is important to clarify that. The question that has been bugging me all day is where the money went. We have eliminated one option. Is it not feasible to suggest that individuals' compensation is tied into the performance of their business unit? This so-called...

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 4 - National Pensions Reserve Fund
Chapter 25 - Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency
National Treasury Management Agency - Financial Statements 2011
National Pensions Reserve Fund Commission - Financial Statements 2011
(22 Nov 2012)

Paschal Donohoe: That is fine. It was mentioned that the three individuals involved left the bank. Did they leave the bank in its entirety or did they leave the business unit of the bank?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 4 - National Pensions Reserve Fund
Chapter 25 - Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency
National Treasury Management Agency - Financial Statements 2011
National Pensions Reserve Fund Commission - Financial Statements 2011
(22 Nov 2012)

Paschal Donohoe: They exited the bank fully, as opposed to exiting the unit within the bank?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 4 - National Pensions Reserve Fund
Chapter 25 - Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency
National Treasury Management Agency - Financial Statements 2011
National Pensions Reserve Fund Commission - Financial Statements 2011
(22 Nov 2012)

Paschal Donohoe: I just wanted to clarify that because I was not clear on it during the discussion. My next question relates to paragraphs 4.39 and 4.4 of the Comptroller and Auditor General's report. This makes reference to a communication from the bank to the NTMA which arose from a review of transitions undertaken in 2010 and 2011. It was determined that the bank acted as a reckless principal in...

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 4 - National Pensions Reserve Fund
Chapter 25 - Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency
National Treasury Management Agency - Financial Statements 2011
National Pensions Reserve Fund Commission - Financial Statements 2011
(22 Nov 2012)

Paschal Donohoe: May I interject to be sure I understand? The shares were supposed to have been traded as a basket of shares, but they were sold as the components of the basket.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 4 - National Pensions Reserve Fund
Chapter 25 - Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency
National Treasury Management Agency - Financial Statements 2011
National Pensions Reserve Fund Commission - Financial Statements 2011
(22 Nov 2012)

Paschal Donohoe: Was this issue separate from the substantive issue discussed by Deputy Nolan, or is it part of it? Is the €787,000 part of the €3 million, or €2.8 million, that we have discussed?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 4 - National Pensions Reserve Fund
Chapter 25 - Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency
National Treasury Management Agency - Financial Statements 2011
National Pensions Reserve Fund Commission - Financial Statements 2011
(22 Nov 2012)

Paschal Donohoe: It is part of it.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 4 - National Pensions Reserve Fund
Chapter 25 - Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency
National Treasury Management Agency - Financial Statements 2011
National Pensions Reserve Fund Commission - Financial Statements 2011
(22 Nov 2012)

Paschal Donohoe: Which makes up the €3 million we have been discussing. That is fine. I just wanted to clarify that. My colleagues have discussed the fact that this bank continues to be involved in another element of business with the NTMA. How acceptable does Mr. Corrigan think that is? I understand completely that he is waiting for the result from the FSA and that he needs to do that. He used...

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 4 - National Pensions Reserve Fund
Chapter 25 - Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency
National Treasury Management Agency - Financial Statements 2011
National Pensions Reserve Fund Commission - Financial Statements 2011
(22 Nov 2012)

Paschal Donohoe: Surely the strongest way of articulating NTMA's displeasure would be to suspend trading with the bank.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 4 - National Pensions Reserve Fund
Chapter 25 - Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency
National Treasury Management Agency - Financial Statements 2011
National Pensions Reserve Fund Commission - Financial Statements 2011
(22 Nov 2012)

Paschal Donohoe: Okay. I have been genuinely impressed by the forthright way Mr. Corrigan has elaborated on the context of this and on the discussion he has with State Street. It is to his credit and to that of his organisation. I am, however, struggling to reconcile in my mind the manner in which he described it. The NTMA speculated on internal collusion in an organisation but we continue to do business...

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