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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Pension Schemes: Discussion (15 Jun 2017)

John Curran: Okay. Are there any additional questions?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Pension Schemes: Discussion (15 Jun 2017)

John Curran: Before we conclude, I asked Mr. Kennedy a question at the outset. I am not trying to catch him or anything like that but I want to put it as simply and directly as possible. I asked him whether there was an issue around the timeliness of this legislation. My concern is there is something of a conflict, in that the cost of business has not been analysed. It has come across both from Mr....

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Pension Schemes: Discussion (15 Jun 2017)

John Curran: I thank Mr. Kennedy and call Deputy Brady.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Pension Schemes: Discussion (15 Jun 2017)

John Curran: Just before that is answered, Deputy Kenny had a point.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Pension Schemes: Discussion (15 Jun 2017)

John Curran: I will intervene in a bid to help Deputy Kenny, as he missed the start of the meeting. This committee previously received a written submission from Mr. Courtney which we sent on to the Department. We got a response which we then sent to Mr. Courtney. Yesterday, Mr. Courtney rang the Department and discussed this issue. We as a committee will get a written response from the Department...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Pension Schemes: Discussion (15 Jun 2017)

John Curran: That concludes the questions unless any of the witnesses would like to make further comments. I know that some of them have not been addressed directly but they are free to make a comment if they wish to do so.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Pension Schemes: Discussion (15 Jun 2017)

John Curran: Those comments are echoed by all the committee members present. I thank Ms Toner for mentioning that.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Pension Schemes: Discussion (15 Jun 2017)

John Curran: I do not mean to be flippant, but Mr. Courtney made a comment at the start that if things go well, his organisation would be out of business.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Pension Schemes: Discussion (15 Jun 2017)

John Curran: I thank all the witnesses for their presentations and for their direct responses to the questions we asked today.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Business of Joint Committee (1 Jun 2017)

John Curran: I welcome everyone to the meeting. Before I begin I shall make the usual announcement and ask everyone to switch off their phones completely or put them on flight mode as they affect the recording equipment. I propose that we go into private session to deal with some housekeeping matters before returning to public session. Is that agreed? Agreed.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: General Scheme of Social Welfare and Pensions Bill 2017: Discussion (1 Jun 2017)

John Curran: I welcome the witnesses to the meeting. From the Department of Social Protection we are joined by Mr. John McKeon, Ms Kathleen Stack, Mr. Tim Duggan, Ms Helen McDonald and Mr. Brian Duff. I thank them all for joining us this morning. Members have already been circulated with the opening statement as well as a document. I ask Mr. McKeon to make the Department's opening statement. Members...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: General Scheme of Social Welfare and Pensions Bill 2017: Discussion (1 Jun 2017)

John Curran: I thank Mr. McKeon. In private session this morning, members were conscious that the Department and Minister indicated their desire to have all Stages of the Bill completed before the summer recess. Members understand the reasons for this and we will do everything in our power to facilitate this outcome. While the committee will not unnecessarily delay the Bill, at our next meeting after...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: General Scheme of Social Welfare and Pensions Bill 2017: Discussion (1 Jun 2017)

John Curran: I call Senator Humphreys and he has five minutes as well.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: General Scheme of Social Welfare and Pensions Bill 2017: Discussion (1 Jun 2017)

John Curran: I call Deputy Brady and he has five minutes.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: General Scheme of Social Welfare and Pensions Bill 2017: Discussion (1 Jun 2017)

John Curran: I urge the Deputy to state his point and get on with things.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: General Scheme of Social Welfare and Pensions Bill 2017: Discussion (1 Jun 2017)

John Curran: Before we revert to Mr. McKeon, he has heard a number of issues. In respect of head 4 and naming and shaming, while nobody is condoning fraud, there is concern that the ultimate sanction should be appropriate to the offence that was committed. There is a big difference between somebody being convicted in court for a relatively small issue and somebody who has habitually committed very...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: General Scheme of Social Welfare and Pensions Bill 2017: Discussion (1 Jun 2017)

John Curran: I want to remind colleagues that this is pre-legislative scrutiny. The Minister and the Department are putting forward what is in the Bill. It is not up to us to like it or not.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: General Scheme of Social Welfare and Pensions Bill 2017: Discussion (1 Jun 2017)

John Curran: The point I am making is that we can reflect the issue that the committee raised in the report that we will make to the Department. They do not have to agree with us. The consensus here is that this is a step in a new direction. Senator Humphreys is saying it is a second penalty, effectively.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: General Scheme of Social Welfare and Pensions Bill 2017: Discussion (1 Jun 2017)

John Curran: That is pure speculation.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: General Scheme of Social Welfare and Pensions Bill 2017: Discussion (1 Jun 2017)

John Curran: For the record that is purely speculation.

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