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Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 18 - Salary Overpayments to Teachers
Vote 26 - Department of Education and Skills
(28 Feb 2013)

Seán Fleming: The Department pays Bus Éireann. That is like somebody saying-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 18 - Salary Overpayments to Teachers
Vote 26 - Department of Education and Skills
(28 Feb 2013)

Seán Fleming: Okay. On the general question, whether it is the State transport company or the Department of Education and Skills, it is between them who is responsible for getting the students to and from school. If there is a wrong central measuring point being used, how can that be corrected?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 18 - Salary Overpayments to Teachers
Vote 26 - Department of Education and Skills
(28 Feb 2013)

Seán Fleming: I will send the Secretary General the specifics because, like every other Oireachtas Member in my area, I have been trying to sort out the matter. It is not merely a personal difficulty. I have a quick question on overpayment of teachers' salaries. It is a question I ran into previously and it is a complex area. It has nothing to do with the report about teachers' salaries and how the...

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 18 - Salary Overpayments to Teachers
Vote 26 - Department of Education and Skills
(28 Feb 2013)

Seán Fleming: I would not expect the Secretary General to have a note on this topic. If somebody has the information, that would be excellent. Perhaps Mr. Moloney could send a note to the committee on the number cases of recoupment from the Department of Social Protection in regard to maternity benefit over the past five or six years? That should be an appropriation-in-aid. What is the...

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 18 - Salary Overpayments to Teachers
Vote 26 - Department of Education and Skills
(28 Feb 2013)

Seán Fleming: How many?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 18 - Salary Overpayments to Teachers
Vote 26 - Department of Education and Skills
(28 Feb 2013)

Seán Fleming: A total of 5,275 appeals have gone in. To where did they go?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 18 - Salary Overpayments to Teachers
Vote 26 - Department of Education and Skills
(28 Feb 2013)

Seán Fleming: I do not think that is right at all.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 18 - Salary Overpayments to Teachers
Vote 26 - Department of Education and Skills
(28 Feb 2013)

Seán Fleming: I doubt that.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 18 - Salary Overpayments to Teachers
Vote 26 - Department of Education and Skills
(28 Feb 2013)

Seán Fleming: Because of the replies to two parliamentary questions. While there might be an internal review or internal appeal process, an appeals board was established on 8 September 2011. It is chaired by Ms Maureen Waldron and is comprised of Mr. Pádraic McNamara, Dr. Marie Clarke, Ms Rebecca Murphy, Ms Eithne Frost, Dr. Brenna Clarke and Professor Kevin Ryan. This is the appeals board...

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 18 - Salary Overpayments to Teachers
Vote 26 - Department of Education and Skills
(28 Feb 2013)

Seán Fleming: That is a screening process.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 18 - Salary Overpayments to Teachers
Vote 26 - Department of Education and Skills
(28 Feb 2013)

Seán Fleming: The Secretary General should talk me through the appeals process system.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 18 - Salary Overpayments to Teachers
Vote 26 - Department of Education and Skills
(28 Feb 2013)

Seán Fleming: Within SUSI, that is, within the City of Dublin Vocational Education Committee, CDVEC.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 18 - Salary Overpayments to Teachers
Vote 26 - Department of Education and Skills
(28 Feb 2013)

Seán Fleming: Okay, so 5,000 applicants had what I will call the internal review within the SUSI organisation.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 18 - Salary Overpayments to Teachers
Vote 26 - Department of Education and Skills
(28 Feb 2013)

Seán Fleming: And approximately 3,000 were-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 18 - Salary Overpayments to Teachers
Vote 26 - Department of Education and Skills
(28 Feb 2013)

Seán Fleming: How many were upheld?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 18 - Salary Overpayments to Teachers
Vote 26 - Department of Education and Skills
(28 Feb 2013)

Seán Fleming: Okay. I refer to the 1,861 cases in which the appeals were not upheld. Most people, when I raise the issue of this independent appeals board, the membership of which I have just read out, are not even aware of its existence. It is not referred to in the system. The fact that only approximately 100 appeals have gone to that independent appeals board shows there is a complete lack of...

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 18 - Salary Overpayments to Teachers
Vote 26 - Department of Education and Skills
(28 Feb 2013)

Seán Fleming: Is it not now a bit late, three quarters of the way through the academic year, for the Secretary General to inquire whether students are informed of such a right or of the existence of an independent appeals board? We are almost at the end of the process. The Secretary General indicated that most of them have been dealt with and I accept that 55,000 out of 69,000 have been completed....

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 18 - Salary Overpayments to Teachers
Vote 26 - Department of Education and Skills
(28 Feb 2013)

Seán Fleming: Mr. Ó Foghlú and his colleagues are welcome. I wish to raise four or five points. I will be as brief as possible. I will not rehash anything but I wish to clarify one figure relating to SUSI. Mr. Ó Foghlú indicated there were 69,000 applicants and 55,000 applications have been completed. How many of the 55,000 were refused? I will not inquire about the current level...

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 18 - Salary Overpayments to Teachers
Vote 26 - Department of Education and Skills
(28 Feb 2013)

Seán Fleming: Out of the 55,000 completed applications, 52%-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 18 - Salary Overpayments to Teachers
Vote 26 - Department of Education and Skills
(28 Feb 2013)

Seán Fleming: I would have thought the number of applications that have been granted would be basic information.

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