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Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 29 - Environment, Climate and Communications
Financial Statements 2022: Sustainability Energy Authority of Ireland
2022 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 8: Performance of Certain Residential Retrofit Schemes
(9 Nov 2023)

Catherine Murphy: What is the plan for scaling it up?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 29 - Environment, Climate and Communications
Financial Statements 2022: Sustainability Energy Authority of Ireland
2022 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 8: Performance of Certain Residential Retrofit Schemes
(9 Nov 2023)

Catherine Murphy: I would hate to think that we would be doing anything other than trying to achieve our targets. The idea of buying compliance would mean we are going to have to keep on buying compliance. I asked Dr. Byrne about the economies of scale on the Fingal project and one of the things he said was that there was a bit of resistance in that. Is there resistance in other areas? I have seen it...

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 29 - Environment, Climate and Communications
Financial Statements 2022: Sustainability Energy Authority of Ireland
2022 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 8: Performance of Certain Residential Retrofit Schemes
(9 Nov 2023)

Catherine Murphy: What about the excess energy that is wasted?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 29 - Environment, Climate and Communications
Financial Statements 2022: Sustainability Energy Authority of Ireland
2022 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 8: Performance of Certain Residential Retrofit Schemes
(9 Nov 2023)

Catherine Murphy: There are small things, for example, with regard to schools if we are asking them to prioritise certain things. In my constituency, it will be people asking if they can find a place for a child, and that will be the number one priority.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 29 - Environment, Climate and Communications
Financial Statements 2022: Sustainability Energy Authority of Ireland
2022 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 8: Performance of Certain Residential Retrofit Schemes
(9 Nov 2023)

Catherine Murphy: The here and now in many ways takes precedence. If Ms Buckley is talking to the Department of Education, it is going to be important to put a system in place to make sure it is rolled out because very often, the principal or board of management will become the project manager for something like this. I know the challenge for a school when it has an extension or whatever. I do not think we...

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 29 - Environment, Climate and Communications
Financial Statements 2022: Sustainability Energy Authority of Ireland
2022 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 8: Performance of Certain Residential Retrofit Schemes
(9 Nov 2023)

Catherine Murphy: Is there an estimate of the building rating of the entire housing stock? I presume each has a profile and all of that.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 29 - Environment, Climate and Communications
Financial Statements 2022: Sustainability Energy Authority of Ireland
2022 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 8: Performance of Certain Residential Retrofit Schemes
(9 Nov 2023)

Catherine Murphy: That dispersed pattern of settlement we have is something we talk about routinely on different things with regard to services and costs and things like that. Does that make it more expensive to do the retrofits relative to other countries?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 29 - Environment, Climate and Communications
Financial Statements 2022: Sustainability Energy Authority of Ireland
2022 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 8: Performance of Certain Residential Retrofit Schemes
(9 Nov 2023)

Catherine Murphy: Can one retrofit district heating in a pre-existing housing estate?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 29 - Environment, Climate and Communications
Financial Statements 2022: Sustainability Energy Authority of Ireland
2022 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 8: Performance of Certain Residential Retrofit Schemes
(9 Nov 2023)

Catherine Murphy: It would be like Bord Gáis rolling out pipes.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 29 - Environment, Climate and Communications
Financial Statements 2022: Sustainability Energy Authority of Ireland
2022 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 8: Performance of Certain Residential Retrofit Schemes
(9 Nov 2023)

Catherine Murphy: Okay, but obviously there is a cost.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 29 - Environment, Climate and Communications
Financial Statements 2022: Sustainability Energy Authority of Ireland
2022 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 8: Performance of Certain Residential Retrofit Schemes
(9 Nov 2023)

Catherine Murphy: If one does it in new estates they would be built to a much higher energy rating anyway.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 29 - Environment, Climate and Communications
Financial Statements 2022: Sustainability Energy Authority of Ireland
2022 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 8: Performance of Certain Residential Retrofit Schemes
(9 Nov 2023)

Catherine Murphy: On local authority housing and approved housing bodies, there are people there with whom the Department can deal with directly. The gap in the funding is very real in not being able to realise an ambition and wanting to realise that ambition. Has the Department done an assessment or does it have information from the local authorities about where those impediments are, or if parts of the...

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 29 - Environment, Climate and Communications
Financial Statements 2022: Sustainability Energy Authority of Ireland
2022 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 8: Performance of Certain Residential Retrofit Schemes
(9 Nov 2023)

Catherine Murphy: Can I just stop Mr. Walsh there? This is all disbursed and the big challenge is to pull this all together. There is one Department dealing with local authorities with the same scheme. Again, it is giving them the money and saying, "Okay, you do that" but not giving them enough to do it. One might as well not give it to them at all if they have no budget to pull it together. Whose job is...

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 29 - Environment, Climate and Communications
Financial Statements 2022: Sustainability Energy Authority of Ireland
2022 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 8: Performance of Certain Residential Retrofit Schemes
(9 Nov 2023)

Catherine Murphy: I will need to go elsewhere for that answer. Can I just pull the witness up here? The Cathaoirleach and I have picked up on something that was said about the body that deals with all the local authorities, which is the County and City Management Association. The last time we looked we were living in a democracy. It is quite extraordinary that there is no engagement with the people who are...

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 29 - Environment, Climate and Communications
Financial Statements 2022: Sustainability Energy Authority of Ireland
2022 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 8: Performance of Certain Residential Retrofit Schemes
(9 Nov 2023)

Catherine Murphy: It is also an older stock.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 29 - Environment, Climate and Communications
Financial Statements 2022: Sustainability Energy Authority of Ireland
2022 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 8: Performance of Certain Residential Retrofit Schemes
(9 Nov 2023)

Catherine Murphy: I will send the Chair the case.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 29 - Environment, Climate and Communications
Financial Statements 2022: Sustainability Energy Authority of Ireland
2022 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 8: Performance of Certain Residential Retrofit Schemes
(9 Nov 2023)

Catherine Murphy: I will finish off with a couple of points on the recommendations from the previous time the SEAI met the Committee of Public Accounts and the report we wrote. The review of the estimation techniques has been taken on board by the Department. We expect to see that happen next year. What work has started in order to ensure the review happens in 2024?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 29 - Environment, Climate and Communications
Financial Statements 2022: Sustainability Energy Authority of Ireland
2022 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 8: Performance of Certain Residential Retrofit Schemes
(9 Nov 2023)

Catherine Murphy: Yes.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 29 - Environment, Climate and Communications
Financial Statements 2022: Sustainability Energy Authority of Ireland
2022 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 8: Performance of Certain Residential Retrofit Schemes
(9 Nov 2023)

Catherine Murphy: Obviously, there will be improvements as we go on. I presume there are GDPR issues relating to it. The Comptroller and Auditor General referred to it in respect of energy consumption in a household. It is a pretty obvious metric.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 29 - Environment, Climate and Communications
Financial Statements 2022: Sustainability Energy Authority of Ireland
2022 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 8: Performance of Certain Residential Retrofit Schemes
(9 Nov 2023)

Catherine Murphy: The other recommendation was that the Department and the SEAI should continue to explore opportunities for access and use of actual energy consumption data at individual property level. This is pretty much-----

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