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Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (8 Jul 2015)

John Paul Phelan: But, again, I'm just going to refer - this is my final question on this - this evidence which is in front of me, which was presented to you by your Department; or you were involved in discussions around it, in January 2008, which specifically spelled out that you should adopt a more circumspect approach to the advice you were getting from the regulator. Do you-----

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (8 Jul 2015)

John Paul Phelan: Thank you. I want to turn now to Vol. 2 of the core booklets, at page 66. It's a letter from Mr. Alan Gray to Kevin Cardiff on 25 September 2008.

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (8 Jul 2015)

John Paul Phelan: It's in Mr. Cowen's document, Vol. 2, page 66 ... letter, 25 September ... it's an unusual letter, I think it's fair to say. There's an extensive PS at the end of it which I have rarely seen in such documents. But, Mr. Gray wrote to Mr. Cardiff advocating a guarantee and strongly opposing nationalisation in the subsequent ... there's a two-page document attached to that particular letter....

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (8 Jul 2015)

John Paul Phelan: He outlines a series of-----

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (8 Jul 2015)

John Paul Phelan: Not quite. Now, in fairness-----

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (8 Jul 2015)

John Paul Phelan: He outlines the options-----

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (8 Jul 2015)

John Paul Phelan: -----and, as you will see, one option gets significantly more attention than all the others. It's very clear from ... the State guarantee of all loans and banks incorporated in Ireland gets-----

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (8 Jul 2015)

John Paul Phelan: -----twice as much as all the rest of them do.

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (8 Jul 2015)

John Paul Phelan: I think today is the first statement by you that he was the last person that you did speak to before the final decision was made on the ... in that phone call. If he had given you other advice on that particular evening, you know, would that have had a ... would that have lead to a different result?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (8 Jul 2015)

John Paul Phelan: There's a slight difference. He gave his opinion of that conversation to The Irish Timesin 4 January 2011. You stated today that you asked him what he thought of the guarantee option being used. He stated that you rang him to obtain his views, as a director of the Central Bank, on likely market reaction'. They are not quite the same.

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (8 Jul 2015)

John Paul Phelan: The reason I'm asking ... and I think you took me up wrong the last day, I wasn't really casting any aspersions on Mr. Gray but I do think that many people in the general public don't know that he was a significant player. I've two other examples of other letters which I won't go into now, Chairman, on page 62 ... 61 of Vol. 2 and page 125, Vol. 4 ... of letters which he wrote - of a very...

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (8 Jul 2015)

John Paul Phelan: -----to be offering this sort of advice at that particularly crucial juncture?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (8 Jul 2015)

John Paul Phelan: My final question. In relation to the area of recapitalisation, in answer to I think Deputy O'Donnell earlier, you spoke that eventually we would move to the recapitalisation phase. You chaired the discussions obviously on the night of the guarantee. Did you ask either of the two banking representatives, either of the two institutions that were represented on the night, their view as to...

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (8 Jul 2015)

John Paul Phelan: Do you think that that-----

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (8 Jul 2015)

John Paul Phelan: Why didn't you?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (8 Jul 2015)

John Paul Phelan: Why that failure? That's really what I'm hitting at.

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (8 Jul 2015)

John Paul Phelan: I mean, in light of the fact that the taxpayer has had to inject significant billions-----

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (8 Jul 2015)

John Paul Phelan: Those recapitalised ... no ... I'm trying to put the question.

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (8 Jul 2015)

John Paul Phelan: That the recapitalisation occurred in the next following few months, they were discussing it at board level two weeks later. Why didn't you ask that question on that particular night?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (8 Jul 2015)

John Paul Phelan: I'm talking about the taxpayer capital?

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