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Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 11: VAT on Intra-Community Trade
(9 May 2013)

Seán Fleming: Yes.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 11: VAT on Intra-Community Trade
(9 May 2013)

Seán Fleming: Revenue eliminated 500 cases very quickly, examined 100, and 32 were-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 11: VAT on Intra-Community Trade
(9 May 2013)

Seán Fleming: I know it took a lot of work to reach the 60 or 70 cases Revenue pursued.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 11: VAT on Intra-Community Trade
(9 May 2013)

Seán Fleming: I return to the Comptroller and Auditor General's opening figure of €1.3 billion which ended up with €200 million. If one extrapolates the €2.5 billion, in terms of the turnover of those companies, across what he referred to, what would Revenue come up with? There is no point just examining the Waterford office and declaring that a detailed audit of 70 cases yielded an...

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 11: VAT on Intra-Community Trade
(9 May 2013)

Seán Fleming: Okay.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 11: VAT on Intra-Community Trade
(9 May 2013)

Seán Fleming: They are different issues. Mr. McCarthy referred to one of my last points and perhaps he will comment on my next issue. Everything we have talked about so far is related to exports and the potential risk of us not getting VAT that may be sent to an unregistered trader in another EU country. We are discussing a potential loss that may not be a real loss at all. Is there a risk coming the...

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 11: VAT on Intra-Community Trade
(9 May 2013)

Seán Fleming: That brings us to the carousel or the missing trader fraud issue. A company could be set up and be very active, but it is gone when the time comes to chase it. The Comptroller and Auditor General's report refers to missing trader fraud. Paragraph 11.44 on page 165 states the Revenue Commissioners have not tried to estimate the scale of missing trader or carousel fraud in Ireland or the...

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 11: VAT on Intra-Community Trade
(9 May 2013)

Seán Fleming: We have all seen acres of land in the past few years with plant and machinery on it. Much of the machinery has been sold for export. Obviously, the Revenue Commissioners have a concern. Perhaps the witness might give us some information on that exercise.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 11: VAT on Intra-Community Trade
(9 May 2013)

Seán Fleming: Did the witness say that of the 102 traders examined in the plant and machinery sector, 17 are missing?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 11: VAT on Intra-Community Trade
(9 May 2013)

Seán Fleming: The witness cannot comment on specifics, but does she think some of the 17 cases could result in prosecutions, similar to the two in the motor trade?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 11: VAT on Intra-Community Trade
(9 May 2013)

Seán Fleming: What checks are carried out on outstanding balances? One of the Sunday newspapers produces a list of judgments every week and those who buy that newspaper can see them. The Collector General is often listed as the person obtaining the judgment. I have seen the names and addresses of companies in the midlands - I am not talking about my county - against which the Revenue Commissioners had...

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 11: VAT on Intra-Community Trade
(9 May 2013)

Seán Fleming: I will refer to the note the witness provided a couple of days ago with further information and an update relating to the Comptroller and Auditor General's report. Dealing with the first recommendation on VAT and inter-company trade, the note states Revenue Commissioners districts have been given a role in following up unmatched VIES data this year. Why has it taken until this year for the...

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 11: VAT on Intra-Community Trade
(9 May 2013)

Seán Fleming: I will move to the last paragraph on page 3 of the same document and the Waterford case study. It is recommendation 11.4. Again, the witness talks about Eurofisc and various checks being carried out. She has said a new social network tool is being explored to identify potential fraudulent business networks. Will she explain this? The paragraph also states it is expected this tool will be...

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 11: VAT on Intra-Community Trade
(9 May 2013)

Seán Fleming: It is or it was in the services sector.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 11: VAT on Intra-Community Trade
(9 May 2013)

Seán Fleming: It is a household name anyway.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 11: VAT on Intra-Community Trade
(9 May 2013)

Seán Fleming: During the 2011 period, how have its figures to the Central Statistics Office, CSO, tallied? It must give trade and export figures to the CSO. Does the witness know from where I am coming? The CSO is the only other benchmark I have with the company, and there is a memorandum of understanding with the Revenue Commissioners. Will Ms Feehily answer those specific questions without...

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 11: VAT on Intra-Community Trade
(9 May 2013)

Seán Fleming: Will Ms Feehily run that by me again?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 11: VAT on Intra-Community Trade
(9 May 2013)

Seán Fleming: Does it not include services?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 11: VAT on Intra-Community Trade
(9 May 2013)

Seán Fleming: What sort of figures are they? That is not Ms Feehily's department.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 11: VAT on Intra-Community Trade
(9 May 2013)

Seán Fleming: Coincidentally, we can ask that this afternoon as the Taoiseach will be before a committee with the Government Chief Whip to discuss the Estimates for his Department, and there will be a discussion on the Estimate for the CSO. I will ask the question.

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