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Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 3 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
Chapter 4 - Reallocation of Voted Funding
(20 Oct 2022)

Jennifer Carroll MacNeill: What would the total amount be?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 3 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
Chapter 4 - Reallocation of Voted Funding
(20 Oct 2022)

Jennifer Carroll MacNeill: Is it €3 billion, €5 billion, €10 billion?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 3 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
Chapter 4 - Reallocation of Voted Funding
(20 Oct 2022)

Jennifer Carroll MacNeill: Okay, so it is at least €1 billion then out of the €74 billion.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 3 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
Chapter 4 - Reallocation of Voted Funding
(20 Oct 2022)

Jennifer Carroll MacNeill: Mr. Moloney is saying the Department has stepped outside the code essentially because of Covid and the need to move money quickly. Is that it in essence?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 3 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
Chapter 4 - Reallocation of Voted Funding
(20 Oct 2022)

Jennifer Carroll MacNeill: Sure, so because of Covid the Department used this procedure more than it would normally. Is that correct?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 3 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
Chapter 4 - Reallocation of Voted Funding
(20 Oct 2022)

Jennifer Carroll MacNeill: All right, that is what I said. When the Department was going through this process how did it flag it? For example, is it going to happen this year?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 3 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
Chapter 4 - Reallocation of Voted Funding
(20 Oct 2022)

Jennifer Carroll MacNeill: Sure.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 3 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
Chapter 4 - Reallocation of Voted Funding
(20 Oct 2022)

Jennifer Carroll MacNeill: Yes.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 3 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
Chapter 4 - Reallocation of Voted Funding
(20 Oct 2022)

Jennifer Carroll MacNeill: Okay, that is fine. I will come back to that but I want to ask about the management of capital funds generally. Take, for example, the bigger-spending Departments. Ultimately, the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform is responsible for the NDP and the major capital projects. The funding is coming through the Department, as is the overall supervision. Is that not correct?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 3 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
Chapter 4 - Reallocation of Voted Funding
(20 Oct 2022)

Jennifer Carroll MacNeill: Exactly. It is Mr. Moloney's Department. Let us take 2022 because obviously 2021 was a bit different. What does the Department expect from the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage? Where is it on profile at this stage, three quarters of the way through the year, with respect to its capital spend? I mean in percentage and monetary terms.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 3 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
Chapter 4 - Reallocation of Voted Funding
(20 Oct 2022)

Jennifer Carroll MacNeill: Is Mr. Moloney talking about in the private sector or in the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 3 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
Chapter 4 - Reallocation of Voted Funding
(20 Oct 2022)

Jennifer Carroll MacNeill: Okay but what I am asking, within my 15 minutes, is what is the Department's spend on capital projects relative to what it should be.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 3 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
Chapter 4 - Reallocation of Voted Funding
(20 Oct 2022)

Jennifer Carroll MacNeill: The Department is 30% below profile three quarters into the year.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 3 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
Chapter 4 - Reallocation of Voted Funding
(20 Oct 2022)

Jennifer Carroll MacNeill: Where was the Department relative to profile at, say, the end of quarter 1?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 3 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
Chapter 4 - Reallocation of Voted Funding
(20 Oct 2022)

Jennifer Carroll MacNeill: Okay. What does Mr. Moloney expect will be the situation by the end of quarter 4?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 3 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
Chapter 4 - Reallocation of Voted Funding
(20 Oct 2022)

Jennifer Carroll MacNeill: That is one of my concerns. I am glad Mr. Moloney has raised it. I am concerned it is being spent at the end of the year in a sort of heavy way on a range of different projects, including the purchase of turnkeys, which the Department says helps finance the development of those properties. That is fine except there is a willing market out there already looking to purchase homes. I am...

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 3 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
Chapter 4 - Reallocation of Voted Funding
(20 Oct 2022)

Jennifer Carroll MacNeill: I am curious because from the overall perspective of the State to deliver capital projects, it requires an oversight mechanism such as Mr. Moloney's Department. What is his Department's capacity to test how the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage is doing relative to profile and in its decision-making? For example, does Mr. Moloney's Department have any engineers, chartered...

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 3 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
Chapter 4 - Reallocation of Voted Funding
(20 Oct 2022)

Jennifer Carroll MacNeill: I am not just talking about the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage as the Department of Transport could be another example. If Mr. Moloney's Department's objective is to ensure capital projects are delivered on behalf of the State and it provides the funding for that, in order to be able to effectively oversee that delivery his Department needs to at least have the capacity...

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 3 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
Chapter 4 - Reallocation of Voted Funding
(20 Oct 2022)

Jennifer Carroll MacNeill: I do not think that is enough. It is not enough to give a big pile of money to the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage or the Department of Transport and to fail to have an oversight mechanism for the State to ensure those Departments are actually being tested externally in some way to ensure those projects are delivered. The sense one has is there is an awful lot of money...

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 3 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
Chapter 4 - Reallocation of Voted Funding
(20 Oct 2022)

Jennifer Carroll MacNeill: Is the OPW not part of Mr. Moloney's Department?

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