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Public Accounts Committee: HSE's Patients' Private Property Accounts 2015
HSE Financial Statement 2015: Note 13 re Fair Deal Scheme
Health Repayments Scheme Donations Fund 2015
(9 Mar 2017)

Bobby Aylward: Can we bring them in some other day?

Public Accounts Committee: HSE's Patients' Private Property Accounts 2015
HSE Financial Statement 2015: Note 13 re Fair Deal Scheme
Health Repayments Scheme Donations Fund 2015
(9 Mar 2017)

Bobby Aylward: I thank the Chairman. It is an odd day. We are in and out like yo-yos but that is the way it is. We had a good start this morning, I suppose. I want to go back to the private property accounts. Could Mr. Mulvany tell me briefly why these accounts came into existence? Is this the patients' money? Is it the case that they had private savings all along or was money accumulated through...

Public Accounts Committee: HSE's Patients' Private Property Accounts 2015
HSE Financial Statement 2015: Note 13 re Fair Deal Scheme
Health Repayments Scheme Donations Fund 2015
(9 Mar 2017)

Bobby Aylward: The €14.4 million in interest sounds like an awful lot of money. The pre-2005 interest was €2.368 million. We are talking about 12 years ago. How is it taking this length of time to sort all this out?

Public Accounts Committee: HSE's Patients' Private Property Accounts 2015
HSE Financial Statement 2015: Note 13 re Fair Deal Scheme
Health Repayments Scheme Donations Fund 2015
(9 Mar 2017)

Bobby Aylward: I imagine that many of the patients have died in the past 12 years, but the money is still there. Who will get it? Will it be the family? Many legalities must be involved. If a will has been made, that is fine, but if a person dies intestate, the family have a claim. I understand they get the money. Must the HSE divide it up or to whom does it give the money? What about a ward of court...

Public Accounts Committee: HSE's Patients' Private Property Accounts 2015
HSE Financial Statement 2015: Note 13 re Fair Deal Scheme
Health Repayments Scheme Donations Fund 2015
(9 Mar 2017)

Bobby Aylward: The money goes back to the State.

Public Accounts Committee: HSE's Patients' Private Property Accounts 2015
HSE Financial Statement 2015: Note 13 re Fair Deal Scheme
Health Repayments Scheme Donations Fund 2015
(9 Mar 2017)

Bobby Aylward: Given what has happened, there seems to be weak control in the system. Was there any misappropriation of funds? There are many areas in Ireland. Has the HSE proved that there were no misappropriations? Has the Garda ever had to be called in to investigate a case?

Public Accounts Committee: HSE's Patients' Private Property Accounts 2015
HSE Financial Statement 2015: Note 13 re Fair Deal Scheme
Health Repayments Scheme Donations Fund 2015
(9 Mar 2017)

Bobby Aylward: Were there repercussions for the identified breaches?

Public Accounts Committee: HSE's Patients' Private Property Accounts 2015
HSE Financial Statement 2015: Note 13 re Fair Deal Scheme
Health Repayments Scheme Donations Fund 2015
(9 Mar 2017)

Bobby Aylward: In hindsight, should there have been more scrutiny? Is there a need to have more regular internal audits?

Public Accounts Committee: HSE's Patients' Private Property Accounts 2015
HSE Financial Statement 2015: Note 13 re Fair Deal Scheme
Health Repayments Scheme Donations Fund 2015
(9 Mar 2017)

Bobby Aylward: I will move on to the fair deal scheme. What is the normal time involved? One or two years ago there was a lack of available financing, but the scheme seems to have improved since. I know this because I have been making representations on behalf of constituents. What is the timescale from the start to when a patient joins?

Public Accounts Committee: HSE's Patients' Private Property Accounts 2015
HSE Financial Statement 2015: Note 13 re Fair Deal Scheme
Health Repayments Scheme Donations Fund 2015
(9 Mar 2017)

Bobby Aylward: That is good to hear.

Public Accounts Committee: HSE's Patients' Private Property Accounts 2015
HSE Financial Statement 2015: Note 13 re Fair Deal Scheme
Health Repayments Scheme Donations Fund 2015
(9 Mar 2017)

Bobby Aylward: Is there enough money available to cover everyone who applies?

Public Accounts Committee: HSE's Patients' Private Property Accounts 2015
HSE Financial Statement 2015: Note 13 re Fair Deal Scheme
Health Repayments Scheme Donations Fund 2015
(9 Mar 2017)

Bobby Aylward: It is covered in total.

Public Accounts Committee: HSE's Patients' Private Property Accounts 2015
HSE Financial Statement 2015: Note 13 re Fair Deal Scheme
Health Repayments Scheme Donations Fund 2015
(9 Mar 2017)

Bobby Aylward: The subvention to private and public services has been covered and I do not want to go back over old topics, but it is difficult to square the situation. In most private homes the subvention is €800 to €1,000 per month. In public homes the figure is €1,400. That is a lot of money and sounds extraordinary. During the by-election a few years ago I visited many private...

Public Accounts Committee: HSE's Patients' Private Property Accounts 2015
HSE Financial Statement 2015: Note 13 re Fair Deal Scheme
Health Repayments Scheme Donations Fund 2015
(9 Mar 2017)

Bobby Aylward: Why is there such a difference?

Public Accounts Committee: HSE's Patients' Private Property Accounts 2015
HSE Financial Statement 2015: Note 13 re Fair Deal Scheme
Health Repayments Scheme Donations Fund 2015
(9 Mar 2017)

Bobby Aylward: Is Mr. O'Brien referring to cheaper labour - cheaper nurses and doctors?

Public Accounts Committee: HSE's Patients' Private Property Accounts 2015
HSE Financial Statement 2015: Note 13 re Fair Deal Scheme
Health Repayments Scheme Donations Fund 2015
(9 Mar 2017)

Bobby Aylward: I am from an agricultural background. Mr. Healy gave the figures on the domestic house - the 7% and 7.5% over three years. I have concerns about farmers who may be asset rich but cash poor. Such farmers probably have inherited assets and want to pass them on. There were changes in the budget. Can Mr. Healy give a brief outline on the agriculture end of it, from a farming point of view?

Public Accounts Committee: HSE's Patients' Private Property Accounts 2015
HSE Financial Statement 2015: Note 13 re Fair Deal Scheme
Health Repayments Scheme Donations Fund 2015
(9 Mar 2017)

Bobby Aylward: What way is it assessed now? What happens in the case of two brothers who are not married? They may or may not have wills. If the owner of the land is incapacitated and is sick and brought to hospital, they are left frightened out of their lives that they will lose everything. I had one on to me yesterday.

Public Accounts Committee: HSE's Patients' Private Property Accounts 2015
HSE Financial Statement 2015: Note 13 re Fair Deal Scheme
Health Repayments Scheme Donations Fund 2015
(9 Mar 2017)

Bobby Aylward: Is it based on accounts or on the amount of land?

Public Accounts Committee: HSE's Patients' Private Property Accounts 2015
HSE Financial Statement 2015: Note 13 re Fair Deal Scheme
Health Repayments Scheme Donations Fund 2015
(9 Mar 2017)

Bobby Aylward: It is based on accounts.

Public Accounts Committee: HSE's Patients' Private Property Accounts 2015
HSE Financial Statement 2015: Note 13 re Fair Deal Scheme
Health Repayments Scheme Donations Fund 2015
(9 Mar 2017)

Bobby Aylward: I am glad to hear it is all based on income. I did not realise that. It is all based on income so the land has no bearing on it.

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