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Order of Business (18 Sep 2013)

Pearse Doherty: They were guillotined in previous years.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Joint Sub-Committee on Global Corporate Taxation: Base Erosion and Profit Shifting: Discussion with Department of Finance and Revenue (18 Sep 2013)

Pearse Doherty: The committee discussed the effective tax rate quite a bit yesterday. It would be useful to put to Mr. Gary Tobin the point made yesterday by me and the professor from Trinity College. Mr. Tobin has not circulated his presentation but I assume it is the one that shows the effective tax rate in the State is 11.8%.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Joint Sub-Committee on Global Corporate Taxation: Base Erosion and Profit Shifting: Discussion with Department of Finance and Revenue (18 Sep 2013)

Pearse Doherty: I fully agree. Another report shows the effective tax rate in this State is 6%. Other estimates are way higher. I ask my question because the Department relies on an effective tax rate of 11.8%. It provides information to the Minister that relies on a rate of 11.8%.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Joint Sub-Committee on Global Corporate Taxation: Base Erosion and Profit Shifting: Discussion with Department of Finance and Revenue (18 Sep 2013)

Pearse Doherty: It is the World Bank study.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Joint Sub-Committee on Global Corporate Taxation: Base Erosion and Profit Shifting: Discussion with Department of Finance and Revenue (18 Sep 2013)

Pearse Doherty: What figure is in the presentation Mr. Gary Tobin said he was going to circulate?

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Joint Sub-Committee on Global Corporate Taxation: Base Erosion and Profit Shifting: Discussion with Department of Finance and Revenue (18 Sep 2013)

Pearse Doherty: Very good. I do not believe anybody would believe multinationals are paying 14.4%.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Joint Sub-Committee on Global Corporate Taxation: Base Erosion and Profit Shifting: Discussion with Department of Finance and Revenue (18 Sep 2013)

Pearse Doherty: It is a good effort anyway. Why does the Department or the office of the Revenue Commissioners not actually collect the information and analyse the profits of multinational companies? Why do they not examine the trend in transfer pricing, the growth in group holding companies and the number of incorporated non-resident accounts? If our effective tax rate is so close to the rate of 12.5%...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Joint Sub-Committee on Global Corporate Taxation: Base Erosion and Profit Shifting: Discussion with Department of Finance and Revenue (18 Sep 2013)

Pearse Doherty: It would be very helpful if that information could be furnished to the committee.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Joint Sub-Committee on Global Corporate Taxation: Base Erosion and Profit Shifting: Discussion with Department of Finance and Revenue (18 Sep 2013)

Pearse Doherty: Is it not questionable? These multinational companies' profits remain the same - their profits actually dipped over the five-year period - but the royalties they ship out of the country for intellectual property has nearly doubled. From looking at this here, it is clear that multinational companies know how much tax they want to pay in this State and they are keeping their tax payment...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Joint Sub-Committee on Global Corporate Taxation: Base Erosion and Profit Shifting: Discussion with Department of Finance and Revenue (18 Sep 2013)

Pearse Doherty: I have one final simple question. I will not go into the effective tax rate because I do not think we have time but I would like to go into that. It is a quick question. On the investigation that has been launched by the European Commission, we can play around with words stating that it is requiring information, etc. It is requiring information about specific companies. I note that the...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Joint Sub-Committee on Global Corporate Taxation: Base Erosion and Profit Shifting: Discussion with Department of Finance and Revenue (18 Sep 2013)

Pearse Doherty: That is not the question I asked. The question I asked is about assurances of changes. For example, hypothetically speaking, I am asking them to state that the Revenue or the Department did not say, for example, that it was giving such companies an assurance that Ireland will not change its tax residency position. We are aware there is aggressive tax planning in the State. There must be...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Joint Sub-Committee on Global Corporate Taxation: Base Erosion and Profit Shifting: Discussion with Department of Finance and Revenue (18 Sep 2013)

Pearse Doherty: Yes, I wish to come in on a few points, although I may not get the time to do so. It is a pity there has not been a greater attendance of the membership at today's meeting as both players are central to the hearings. If I have time, I will come in on the question of corporation tax and the effective tax rate. I have a question regarding the Revenue Commissioners and non-resident...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Joint Sub-Committee on Global Corporate Taxation: Base Erosion and Profit Shifting: Discussion with Department of Finance and Revenue (18 Sep 2013)

Pearse Doherty: Consequently, as a body, Revenue would have been aware that the company in question at the hearings was not tax resident anywhere in the world.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Joint Sub-Committee on Global Corporate Taxation: Base Erosion and Profit Shifting: Discussion with Department of Finance and Revenue (18 Sep 2013)

Pearse Doherty: This is interesting because the question arises as to whether the company in question did or did not tell Revenue it was tax resident somewhere else at the time. I acknowledge that the delegates cannot provide members with that information because it is confidential and I do not expect it to receive it. However, I tabled a parliamentary question to the Minister for Finance asking how many...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Joint Sub-Committee on Global Corporate Taxation: Base Erosion and Profit Shifting: Discussion with Department of Finance and Revenue (18 Sep 2013)

Pearse Doherty: We do not know how many companies are using this state. They are incorporated in the State, not paying any tax in the State and not paying any other tax. They are using our system because we deem tax residency to be based on control and management and such companies are exploiting the difference between us and others. However, we do not have a clue as to how many companies are involved....

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Joint Sub-Committee on Global Corporate Taxation: Base Erosion and Profit Shifting: Discussion with Department of Finance and Revenue (18 Sep 2013)

Pearse Doherty: The other claim one hears continually which I have heard again today and from Government sources is that we do not do special tax rate arrangements. No one is making that accusation. I have not heard anyone make that accusation against the State. The accusation, right or wrong, is that there are special arrangements. I hear the delegates continually deny a charge that has not been put....

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Joint Sub-Committee on Global Corporate Taxation: Base Erosion and Profit Shifting: Discussion with Department of Finance and Revenue (18 Sep 2013)

Pearse Doherty: That is the entire point, namely, whether the State facilitates arrangements. Perhaps the Revenue Commissioners are only implementing what is contained in the Finance Act and the question arises as to who has influence in the drafting of legislation to facilitate such companies. However, I will turn to the issue of the transfer of royalties. While there has been much emphasis on the...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Joint Sub-Committee on Global Corporate Taxation: Base Erosion and Profit Shifting: Discussion with Department of Finance and Revenue (18 Sep 2013)

Pearse Doherty: Let us deal with BEPS. I hope the global architecture will be of assistance in resolving this matter. It is the best way to proceed, especially in light of the specific interests of particular countries. Let us focus on the fact that certain companies incorporated in Ireland make billions of euro in profits and do not pay any tax to this State or any other. What are we going to do about...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Joint Sub-Committee on Global Corporate Taxation: Base Erosion and Profit Shifting: Discussion with Department of Finance and Revenue (18 Sep 2013)

Pearse Doherty: The 1998 report compiled by the Department was very good, particularly because it examined the various loopholes. It is the job of companies to exploit loopholes and it is our job, as legislators, and that of the Department of Finance to close them. In 1998 the tax residency rules for companies were changed because it became evident that they were exploiting them. It was decided then that...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Joint Sub-Committee on Global Corporate Taxation: Base Erosion and Profit Shifting: Discussion with Department of Finance and Revenue (18 Sep 2013)

Pearse Doherty: Mr. Tobin is right and it was effective in the context of dealing with that issue at the time. Another situation has arisen 15 years later in that, as everyone present is aware, there are companies which are registered here and which do not pay tax anywhere in the world. Would it be possible to include in the forthcoming finance Bill a mechanism similar to that which was used in 1998? It...

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