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Seanad: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Dec 2018)

Rónán Mullen: Indeed. There are times when even parents who are reasonable and would regard themselves as attentive will struggle to know about things. Every day we hear about the remarkable ignorance of parents about things that are happening to their children. I use the word "ignorance" in its non-judgmental sense.

Seanad: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Dec 2018)

Rónán Mullen: Exactly. I thank Senator McDowell. Parents can be unaware of things that are happening to their children. All of those point to the appropriateness of parental notification, not to the opposite. I stress again that it is not a lack of sympathy. There have been cases of exploitation of underage women and the very people who exploit them are often the ones who arrange for the abortions to...

Seanad: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Dec 2018)

Rónán Mullen: I move amendment No. 42:In page 14, line 23, to delete “out.” and substitute the following: “out; (e) the address at which the termination of pregnancy was carried out; (f) the age, marital status, ethnicity, gravidity and parity (including the numbers of any previous pregnancies resulting in live births, stillbirths over 24 weeks, spontaneous miscarriages, ectopic...

Seanad: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Dec 2018)

Rónán Mullen: The measure was, she said, "really designed to extract information from women that will shame them." If that is the Deputy's view of what has been going on in Britain since the legalisation of abortion-----

Seanad: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Dec 2018)

Rónán Mullen: Yes. This amendment is about bringing the notification requirements in Ireland to the same point as applies in Britain.

Seanad: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Dec 2018)

Rónán Mullen: The point is that it is simply wrong to suggest that an amendment that seeks to mirror an aspect of the UK regime somehow shames women. I think that shows how much the goalposts continue to move on this issue. These restrictions apply not just in the deep south of America but have been introduced in many US states in recent years but that is a debate for another day. Each of the categories...

Seanad: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Dec 2018)

Rónán Mullen: -----and continuity in healthcare data. Supporters of the Bill will be familiar with the Guttmacher Institute, a think tank that is bankrolled by an organisation called Planned Parenthood, which is the largest and most profitable abortion business in the UK. Planned Parenthood made $100 million last year and its CEO is paid just shy of $1 million. Last year, representatives and affiliates...

Seanad: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Dec 2018)

Rónán Mullen: I will not delay other than to say that ignorance as a matter of Government policy is reprehensible. I cannot think of a single medical circumstance that is as important and far-reaching as abortion where it would not be considered good public policy to gather information. That is why I say a policy of deliberate ignorance as to what is going on is bad.

Seanad: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Dec 2018)

Rónán Mullen: If it is a policy of ideologically-motivated ignorance, on the basis that knowledge might produce facts that might cause us to have discussions about things we need to change, it is really bad. The fact is that Ireland is becoming an abortion regime. A big change is taking place. Even in our nearest neighbouring jurisdiction, where abortion is freely available, with nearly 200,000...

Seanad: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Dec 2018)

Rónán Mullen: I am explaining the rationale for my amendment. I stress to colleagues, including Senator Norris, that what is sought is not intrusive on the person. Anonymised data are sought. They are data that would presumably have to be supplied to the certifying physician. The question is whether the certifying physician should be under a duty of law to pass the information on. There is such a...

Seanad: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Dec 2018)

Rónán Mullen: -----but the point is that they do. They have 50 years' experience of abortion so there must be some reason related to policy. It is certainly not about restricting-----

Seanad: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Dec 2018)

Rónán Mullen: Senator Norris would agree it is certainly not about restricting abortion given the trajectory of abortion legislation in Britain.

Seanad: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Dec 2018)

Rónán Mullen: I am not managing to convince Senator Norris but the balance of credibility must at least lie with the HSE. Let us say, for example, that the data were to show an extraordinarily high number of abortions among very young adult women, including women in college. That might be linkable to issues of pressure in college or other issues that are very much talked about these days, such as...

Seanad: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Dec 2018)

Rónán Mullen: I move amendment No. 43:In page 14, after line 36, to insert the following: “(7) A medical practitioner who wilfully or recklessly contravenes subsection (1) of this section shall be guilty of an offence. (8) A person who is guilty of an offence under this section shall be liable— (a) on summary conviction to a class A fine or imprisonment for a term not exceeding 12 months,...

Seanad: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Dec 2018)

Rónán Mullen: I move amendment No. 44:In page 15, between lines 2 and 3, to insert the following: “Information and informed consent 21. (1) Except in a case of an immediate risk to the life, or of serious harm to the health, of the pregnant woman, where it is immediately necessary to carry out the termination of pregnancy in order to avert that risk, no termination of pregnancy shall be carried...

Seanad: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Dec 2018)

Rónán Mullen: Amendment No. 44 is one I would have expected the Government or the pro-choice supporters of the Bill, or both, to propose. It tries to ensure full access to all possible information when a woman is considering having an abortion and that she will give full and voluntary consent to the procedure. Relevant knowledge is essential to give full consent. The amendment makes it clear that...

Seanad: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Dec 2018)

Rónán Mullen: I will speak to it.

Seanad: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Dec 2018)

Rónán Mullen: I am working very hard to be to the point.

Seanad: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Dec 2018)

Rónán Mullen: That is understood. It is interesting that the Minister drifted into the area of counselling, as it is different from the area of providing relevant information. This is not an amendment about counselling.

Seanad: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Dec 2018)

Rónán Mullen: The Minister for Health knows exactly what this amendment is about. It is about informed consent.

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